Transcript 0:00 You save, you invest, you keep an eye on spending. So why do your finances still feel so complicated? Quicken helps you put the whole picture together and make sense of what to do next. 0:10 Connect accounts from more than 14,000 financial institutions and see how all the different pieces of your financial life fit together. With Quicken, you can make sense of your options and decide what to do next. 0:21 Quicken, know what to do next. See how at quicken.com. [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. My name is Boye Kolade, co-founder and president of The Future Party. 0:39 And I'm Chris Sawtelle, CEO and co-founder of Crosscheck Studios. And welcome to the Future Forecast, a podcast where we explore the intersection between business, technology, and entertainment. 0:49 So we've done the research so you don't have to, and we're here to give our opinions about news topics and have a thoughtful discussion on the shifting landscape of our culture. 1:00 And, uh, boy, do we have some topics today. We're gonna talk about Nike. Nike is potential downfall. We'll see. Uh- Wow [laughs] We'll see. Just came straight for their throat. Okay. I know, I know. 1:13 Uh, we're also gonna talk about VidCon moving to Nashville, and Ari Emanuel, Rollin' the Calls, his new memoir book, autobiography coming out. And, uh... 1:28 But before that, why don't we start with the biggest news, uh, that, that just happened yesterday, which is Paramount and Warner Brothers finally closing their deal, uh, or, or getting the go-ahead to close their deal from- Damn, they did... 1:44 um, Bonta and all those AGs. Um- Yeah, fair. It's not done yet, right? Correct. It's been approved. It's been approved. [laughs] There's still room. [laughs] There is still room- Yeah... 1:55 for them to get in the way, for someone- Yeah... somewhere to get in the way. I was reading- Yeah... uh, like, uh, that this is gonna be a, basically, a legendary case study. 2:05 Like ba- you know, from per- from start to, to end, just the ups and downs and crazy swings from both sides, from Warners to Paramount, you know. 2:17 Everything Paramount, everything David Ellison has had to go through from buying Paramount to buying Warners is insane. It's, like, absolute crazy. You're saying that the, the, the... 2:32 Not the loopholes, but like literally the, the l- the hoops he had to jump through to accomplish this? Yeah. 2:40 And, like, literally thr- Like, we've probably already forgotten about it because of Warner Brothers, but I remember when he was, uh, acquiring Paramount, and everything he had to deal with Sherry, and then all of these other potential buyers coming out of the woodwork, right? 2:56 It's pretty crazy if you think about it. Mm-hmm. That level of consolidation. Yeah. Skydance, Paramount, and Warner Brothers- Mm-hmm... all under one umbrella. Yeah. We'll say it again. 3:13 Skydance, Paramount, and Warner Brothers all under one conglomerate- Mm-hmm... is insane. Yep. Do you... So do you feel... 3:26 'Cause there's a lot of people who are afraid that this is gonna be very detrimental to Hollywood. Do you think it will actually be detrimental? And we've kinda talked about this before. I, uh... Hmm. 3:40 I, um, ha, hu, ha, ha. Hmm. The implications of... In any, uh, in any wave of business, there is this, you know, the, there is the cycle that is growth 3:55 and consolidation, growth, consolidation, time and time again. Over and over, we, you see that, that cyclical. We get to a place where, of, of abundance, growth phase. 4:07 Everyone goes out and spends a lot of money or wants to seize the moment or the opportunity to achieve, uh, their own business, get bought, sell it to an... 4:15 And, and then retraction occurs, or more money comes in, and the winners or the people that are in the best, are, are perceived to be in the best position start to apply more money to 4:29 grow, you know, further, further showcase that their business, uh, i- uh, has further growth or opportunity, um, for their evaluation and buy more companies, right? And it's not... 4:43 Kind of a pyramid scheme in a w- in a weird way- [laughs]... if you think about it. 4:45 Just throw more money at the problem and buy more people so you can then showcase more, more justification for why your business is profit, or, uh, has a higher evaluation. 4:55 I will say that in the short term, it will heavily affect the business. 5:01 And when we, people, when people say it's detrimental, it is going to affect the business as it pertains to there are going to be less buyers, or there will be less things purchased solely on the basis of there is going to be a period of time in which Ellison and co. 5:19 are going to have to reconfigure or re-figure out how all the business entities intertwine, if at all. Yeah. Um, I think- But I do-... that's what's gonna have the biggest effect. They, they are though, they... 5:36 Which is interesting. They, they already offered this, but part of the settlement is that they have to release, I believe it's somewhere between 30 to 32 films a year. I believe it starts at 30 and then grows from there. 5:51 Uh, and there's some financial commitments and penalties if they don't do that. 5:55 So- But that doesn't, but that doesn't mean, though, let, let's also remind ourselves, again, and pardon me if I'm, I've, I've missed this in the documents- That doesn't mean that, uh, layoffs are going to occur. 6:07 Think about how many development executives or other people's overlapping jobs. Let's, let- Yes... let's look at something far l- far, you know, 6:15 f- one, if I recall correctly, was far more seamless, but happened just as effectively. Disney and Fox. Mm-hmm. When, uh, when Fox/Hulu sold, right? When that, when the merger happened with Disney. 6:30 When that transpired, there was a period of time in which the acquisition occurred, bodies were, you know, or I don't wanna say bodies, but employees were still, uh, intact for a duration of time- Mm-hmm... 6:44 to make the merging, the merger actually, you know, hold or keep. Yep. And then over time, departments were starting to be let go and, and, and, and shed. And that, there's no question, that is going to occur. 7:00 Uh, you, you know, a lot of, you, you, when you talk to Skydance executives, the thought process is like, "Ooh, yeah. Look, we just got new toys." Yeah. 7:09 Uh, but, you know, only time will tell where the politics pan out, who's in control of what. You know, HBO has always been very untouched whenever- Yeah... 7:20 we've seen per- you know, things like this transpire, rightfully so. They would be smart to leave it alone. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Doesn't mean they won't. But- Mm... but, uh, presumably, they, they will. Uh- Yeah. 7:33 It's gonna be interesting, because Pam Abdy and Michael De Luca, last year, they crushed it, right? Yeah. And they have really good relationships with talent. 7:41 That, I think that's gonna be a big conundrum, how they're gonna handle theatrical, um, for sure. But yeah, it's, it's, uh- Well, do, do you mind elaborating on that? 7:51 When you say it'll be interesting to see how they've handled theatrical, do you, do you m- mean, do you, do you mind expounding upon that? 7:58 Yeah, so- More, more for our listeners, 'cause I don't disagree with you whatsoever, but I think it's im- important to understand why or- So, so there's a lot of redundancies, as you've said, right? Yeah. There's 8:09 marketing teams for both studios. There's- Mm-hmm... creative teams for both studios. Um, and they've already discussed how they can find and kill redundancies. 8:21 And so I'd read somewhere that, you know, they want, like, one head per sort of thing. Um, uh, and I just think Warner Brothers has been crushing it theatrically. 8:35 It, it would be a shame for those two people to go for an executive at Paramount, you know? Right. Um, yeah. 8:44 Also, also, what does it mean as it pertains to the big, big point of contention or big questions are, what does all of this people have to do with James Gunn, James Gunn's DC- Yeah... universe? Yeah. 8:57 And the effects that are in play there. Yeah. Right? There's, it- Again, to- Yeah... all has effects. 9:03 The chessboard of politics is w- we're gonna, we're gonna feel it for the next year, but here, here's where I see the opportunity, because the reality is there's gonna be a lot of lost jobs, but I think for the right people, we may get one or two studios out of this, new studios. 9:20 Like, that- Yeah... I would love to see that, like a challenger studio emerge. Once upon a time, Skydance was just, you know, like, legendary. They, they were just doing slate financing- Mm-hmm... 9:35 um, or, or co-financing, uh, movies with Paramount. And, you know, for the right person, they, they, they can, they can raise the money and, and, and do the thing. [static] Dive in. We got a lot to talk about. 9:51 Um, first off, so it has been Nike's worst month in a generation. So Mbappe, one of- [laughs]... if not the most, uh, actually I don't even wanna go there 'cause I'm gonna get all the Messi haters. 10:08 One of the most popular- [laughs]... uh, football players in the world, Mbappe. Yeah. Uh, he traditionally had had a deal with Nike. Now he is going to On. And in the same breath, Nike is no longer in the S&P 100. 10:25 Uh, it has been tumultuous. 10:29 Uh, recently, one of the LVMH heirs has joined the board in really sort of, um, a turnaround, and uh, you know, it's, uh, it beckons the question, is Nike dead, 10:46 or is this just a bump in the road? That is the question. What are your thoughts on it? I, I think, I think we should start with why it happened. Um- Okay. 10:59 In my opinion, at the end of the day, some may say Nike was, Nike was doing a lot. I personally feel I started to notice things go downhill when they stopped honestly caring about streetwear and drops. And, um, 11:15 when that, like, since then, it has been downhill. Their relevance in culture has not been- What are your favorite Nike shoes? 11:25 Honestly, I'm not, like, the biggest, I'm not the biggest, like, shoe head, you know what I mean? Like- Interesting. Okay. I will wear, I mean, I had the, I had Jordans, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. 11:35 Or, or sorry, I had Air Force 1s. Mm. I grew up wearing Nike. I prefer Nike running shoes. Really? Mm-hmm. I'm, I don't know. I don't really agree with that. [laughs] Okay. 11:45 Um, but I, I, like, they have, they have relationships with Caitlin Clark and, you know, other folks, but it, it's just a new game. New Balance is coming out of nowhere and crushing it. Like, Converse. 12:00 You know, I think ultimately fashion is a byproduct of community and hype, and I just, Nike is not doing it the best right now. Right, right I... Here's my take. Yep. 12:17 And this isn't, and I, and this is actually predominantly more around athleisure or, uh, I think generally speaking, I think this is what where, where fa- when, when it comes to fashion- Yep... 12:28 seasonality- Sorry, can I say one, one thing real quick? Please. Just to correct myself. Uh, Converse is owned by Nike, so. Yeah. Had to throw that out there. All right, continue. Great, great catch. 12:37 So if it was a state of the union as it pertains to athleisure apparel- Mm-hmm... I think something that we need to really reset on or, or reflect on. '80s, '90s, '80s it was Adidas, uh, Adidas, Nike- Mm-hmm... 12:55 and- Maybe Puma... maybe Puma. But what was the, uh, what was the Japanese company? Onis- uh- Onitsuka Onitsuka, which essentially Nike- Yep... came out of, you know, it was, it was baked out of. Yep. 13:12 And, um- Onitsuka Tiger. Yeah, Onitsuka Tiger and Converse, if I'm not mistaken. Converse was a standalone prior to- Mm-hmm... as a competitor to Nike. Yep. I'm sure there's a couple others. I'm, I'm, I'm missing them. 13:24 I'm by all means not trying to belittle, but- Mm-hmm... and Nike didn't really have a big line. Didn't have, did not have. It was Adidas that had the true lion's share, right? And 13:38 when Jordan, when the Air Jordan or when, when that partnership happened, we talked about this a little bit previously. I even think we gave a commentary. 13:46 I think we have, one of the highlights was like me commenting on how it was, like, one of the most beautiful, you know, partnerships- Mm-hmm... ever to have stood the test of time, and I still believe that. We, 13:58 I think both in, in, in, hmm, the marriage between both media and brand, uh, the, the cross-pollination of media and brand cultivation is what really helped propel Nike to its next step. 14:14 I think that we look at, like, the commercials of the '80s. There was Nike's Air Jordan release. Apple- Hmm... also had a, had its moment. 14:25 You know, the Nike doing Just Do It, and Apple's, uh, nine- uh, the, they did, like, the 1984, uh, breaking the image where it, it, it was, it was a, it was a commercial of an individual taking a chair or a television set and throwing it into the screen. 14:42 Like- Yeah... and how Apple was... Those were two huge moments and, you know, the huge commercials that people talk about where it was like that was the moment that that product became or that company really took market. 14:54 Yep. And I think what I'm trying to get at is we're now in the revolution of celebrity brands and new, uh... Nike always had Jordan. 15:10 Jordan was always the, to your point of, like, sneaker culture- Mm-hmm... that is seen as, that, that and the Air Force 1 are seen as two of the penultimate shoes- Yep... in sneaker culture history. Mm-hmm. 15:23 And they do those collabs, and they turn those out and make money all day. Mm-hmm. 15:27 But they weren't able to figure out, they, what they, what they lost sight of or that what they, they, and they still know this to be, they have not been able... Whenever, whenever Nike... 15:36 I mean, I have a friend at Nike, that whenever they ask the question, uh, to talent, "What is your favorite Nike shoe?" Mm-hmm. What always tends to come up is it's always Jordan product. Mm. 15:51 And they know that to be a key issue because what it tells them is that the money that they're, they're really not making the same amount of money. They're, they're stuck. 16:00 They're not able to move new lines of business, and they're, and stay, stay consistent in the Nike product. I, I'm not saying that Nike doesn't sho- sell- Yeah... 16:08 or whatever, but then that mo- the Hailey Bieber moment where the, the chunky dad shoe came to life- Mm-hmm... 16:18 with, you know, Hailey and Jack Harlow and, uh, W- W- what Jaden Smith, when they did that campaign, uh, several years ago, that was the dawning of catering to a female audience or female user for athleisure apparel. 16:36 Hmm. And I think that, that brid- that really created the gap in the market for New Balance to rise and opened the door for On and Hoka and- Yep... uh, there's, there's one more running shoe. 16:54 Uh, uh, that, that, like, like, um, even Tom Brady's Noble, like- Mm... they're, the running shoe has become so much more of, like, an open corridor- Yep... and gateway to- Yep... athleisure apparel. 17:06 I was gonna say gateway drug. Alo. Alo, yep. It's a gateway. Alo, Alo Yoga. 17:10 All, like, everyone's launching their own shoe 'cause they're seeing that Nike doesn't have the anchored footprint anymore, 'cause not everyone is only running. There are so many different- Yeah, yep... 17:22 justifica- Oh, and we didn't talk about ASICS, and ASICS also being a great brand. Yeah. But, um- Totally. Well, I, I think I, I maintain it, it comes down to, to community, you know? And- Mm-hmm... 17:35 and, you know, it, it might seem superficial, but the Nike started to take off when they f- when they started to do brand deals with athletes. Yeah. You know? And I genuinely believe, like, even, even On, right? 17:51 Like, On getting Kylian Mbappé. Before that, they had Roger Federer, and, and Roger came over as an investor too. 17:58 And so, uh, I, I firmly believe they need to really think about what communities they want to partner with and which talent and what it means. 18:09 Like, there should be, like, an in-depth analysis if they wanna, like, really sort of change the narrative. 18:15 Like, even right now, I never thought I would wear New Balances, but I'm wearing, like, these really cool New Balance shoes that were designed by Salehe Bembury, who has essentially replaced the void of, of Virgil and Kanye right now as- Yeah... 18:32 one of the top streetwear hype designers. You know what I mean? That's New Balance, you know? Yeah. Um- Um, we also, we didn't even talk about Under Armour doing that huge deal with Steph Curry. Yeah. 18:44 Steph said screw it to everyone else, and... Now, I'm not saying that that's a huge, successful product. Mm. But for Steph, it's like, "I'm gonna get behind this specific apparel brand, and I'm gonna be the best here." 18:56 Yep. And that- And that was before its time. Um- Yeah, that was before its time. Yeah, because they're, they're actually no longer, uh, they're no longer partners, Under Armour and Steph. Yeah, but where did Steph go? 19:07 Uh, t- this is actually a wild curve ball. Uh, he signed a 10-year partnership with- Yeah... the Chinese sportswear brand Li-Ning. 19:16 So I don't, I don't know if that's gonna be popular in the States, but you know, I guess to each his own. Now that, now that- But Steph, I mean, Steph has never... 19:24 I, I don't think, I- I'm not mistaken, I don't believe Steph has always been, like, a product pusher, right? Like- Mm-hmm... 19:29 you know, The Rock made his shoes with Under Armour as well, the Brahma Bull, uh, wrestl- it wasn't a wrestling shoe, but it was, like, a big anchored product piece. Yeah. Collectable. Uh- Yeah... 19:44 all, all, all of this to say that I think everyone has been and always has been chasing the accomplishment of Jordan or the impact that the Air Jordan shoe crafted and created. Yeah. 19:56 And so that's why we see all these talent partnerships. Sh- everyone wants their own shoe. They wanna make their own shoe. Yep. The Joe Freshgoods collaboration with Jack Harlow came out. 20:08 Specifically, they were, like, a pink collection. Yeah. Uh, I have two pairs that are really pretty. Yeah. 20:14 But like, I'm, anyway, I'm, I'm mentioning it to say, like, tho- I, if I recall, like, moments in time where, like, shoes came out in these collections, people talk about the Kyrie shoe that's actually, uh, been getting a lot of, uh, clout- Mm... 20:27 uh, via TikTok. Uh- Yeah... but sales are sales, and I think there are so many more talent now 20:36 that are understand the importance of media and understand the importance of positioning themselves in the market as face, you know, as faces not only of their game- Mm-hmm... but also, like, almost like a WWE wrestler. 20:51 They have to play, like, into the Attitude Era. Mm-hmm. Uh, not everyone can be the best. Like, even when you're mentioning Mbappe, like- Yeah... 20:59 soccer, there are so many positions that it's so difficult to decide who is the penultimate GOAT- Yeah... of that sport, whereas, like, basketball, there's five key players. Jordan could still be the, the GOAT- Yep... 21:14 of that role. Yeah. It, it, it's interesting, too, though, too, 'cause, you know, obviously there's a lot when it comes to athleticism and a, a lot of these aspirational athletes wanting to be like their idols. 21:26 But over the years, we've had, um, we've had sort of brand partnerships for people who aren't athletes, right? Yeah. Musicians being a big one. Mm. Twitch streamers, right? 21:40 Um, and so I, I, I do also think that's an opportunity. You know, you're talking about Hailey Bieber, like, you know, just, like, again, where are the communities? Like, everyone wears shoes [laughs] you know? 21:53 So, like, where are the communities that, that, that the, like, whether it's Nike or whoever else, you know, can co-opt and, and join and partner and sponsor, but I think that's how you win. 22:04 And obviously there's a technology element to it. People... But I don't know, I mean, 22:10 I don't know when you're getting a shoe how much you're thinking about the, like, aerodynamics and the way the, you know, the polycarbonate or whatever is formed, you know? Yeah. So let's be clear. 22:23 Like, there i- you know, I would say it depends on what I'm using the shoe for, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? I, I think, I think, I think it just depe- like, when you're, when people buy a HOKA or- Yeah... 22:35 a ASIC- Arch support, yep... they're going, "I'm running a marathon." Yep. Or, "I'm running a long distance. I need to make sure that I have-" Yeah "... the proper cushion-" Or working all day "... and shoe guidance." 22:44 Yeah. You know? Yeah, great points. Great points. Yeah. Need a, need a good gel, need a good insole, right? [laughs] Uh- But then there's some people that just wanna look fly, you know? 22:54 [laughs] Yeah, hey, I, I don't knock that. [laughs] You know what? You know what we haven't seen, ironically enough? We talk about all these athletes. Uh, you know what sport hasn't really at least- [gentle music] 23:07 Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing, you're managing all the things, so why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps.com. 23:19 Print postage on demand and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. Over one million small businesses trust stamps.com. 23:29 Get $20 in free postage when you sign up for the pro plan at stamps.com/blackfriday2026. Terms and conditions apply. 23:37 [gentle music] If I recall, like, there hasn't been an athlete in football, and by that I mean American football- Mm... that, you know, the, I know that they've done- Football shoes. Yeah I couldn't really tell you 23:56 an athlete that really was like really the face of a brand- Didn't Aaron Mc-... a la Adidas and Nike... didn't Aaron... Was it- The athletes do deals all day long. 24:04 Mm-hmm If I'm not mistaken, I believe Tom Brady had a deal both with Under Armour and ironically with Nike. I think, I think the Buccaneers were- Mm... Nike and he had a deal with Under Armour. 24:15 Like, they all do deals with these brands, right? Yeah. But I think what's so funny, like they're not, they never break through to... A- as a sport that is seen as America's number one s- most watched, uh... 24:28 And like they, they... The way football has been seen as like the backbone of- Yeah... you know. I agree Both collegiate and, and, and high school, you know, sports, it's just very ironic that- Yep... 24:40 it's not a consumable product. Yeah. I, I hear that. It's like a football athlete's not moving shoe product. Or, or- That we know of... yeah. Like, maybe for the actual sport it might... 24:53 Like, maybe someone wants the cleat, but you know, it almost... If I'm understanding you correctly, because football is so large we should, we should know it. Like, it should... 25:06 Uh, in the same way that like we can list five different athletes and which shoe, shoe brand they've, they've done a deal with. Right You know what I mean? Right. 25:15 Like the beauty of basketball is a basketball shoe technically speaking can still be seen as fashion. It's still a- Yep... shoe that you can use to walk around- Yep... New York. Mm-hmm. 25:25 Or if, if you're a big walker, you can both walk and jump into your shoe and play sports simultaneously. Yep. Yep. That's the beauty of a running shoe generally speaking, right? Yep. Yep. 25:34 Ironically, look at a soccer cleat. Yeah. Cristiano Ronaldo previously over at Nike, Messi over at Adidas. These are huge shoe deals done with these cele- these, these, these, you know, meteoric athletes. Yep. 25:47 And yet, uh, you know, the soccer cleat has, you know, in a, you know, is a little bit more universal- Yeah... and used. But also they have, they have mo- there is also the alternative- Indoor... 26:00 to a cleat in the Samba- Yep... or the like indoor soccer shoe- Yep... which people wear consistently. Yeah. Wild. Never found that with football. Yeah. All right. Well, uh, it's gonna be a wild ride to see. 26:16 Um, uh, let's end- I think this is just the beginning though of, uh, uh, for brands like this. 26:22 Yeah And not, not, like, not to come for like Apple for example, but like I think brand- I think we are going to see this is the s- beginning of the end of like some of the penultimate brands that you and I have grown up with. 26:34 Yeah Where we're gonna start seeing, I don't wanna say their downfall, but the evolution- Yeah... of what they once were, not being able to hold the, the, the crown. Yeah. I agree. The duopoly of Adidas and Nike might be 26:48 going away. Um, all right. So, uh, one quick question for you. What is your favorite shoe brand? Oh, that's a great question. For what? Overall. 27:02 You choose whether it's running or every day, just what you like putting your feet in. Well, right now I am a, I'm a big loafer guy. Nice. Okay So I'm, you know... 27:13 I just generally speaking I, I'm a, I'm a sucker for a loafer. I love it. So I, I, I buy the G.H. Bass. I'll run through those plenty, plenty. Shout out G.H. Bass. 27:21 But if you're asking me like just for like, for the context of the conversation that we're currently having, I'm a little bit more of a trend chaser. I, I do tend to go to my Wales Bonner Adidas collab. 27:34 And I wear, I wear the hell out of my Sambas. Nice You know? Uh, I definitely r- run to those. I don't wear my, I don't wear my 1960 New Balances as much- Mm... at all right now. 27:48 I still love them and I keep them in my collection, and I look at them and I go, "Yeah, I have them." [laughs] But I, I don't, uh- Cool... they're not in the cycle as much. Nice. Nice. All right. I vibe with that. 28:00 I vibe with that. You? Um, so I like, I like the New Balances I mentioned. I'm wearing them right now. Look at that stretch. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. 28:08 [laughs] Um, and I don't wanna sound like a snob, but the caveat I'll say is, um, uh, I... My, my dad has a, uh, nice elegant taste in, in luxury shoes and he hande- Oh, here we go [laughs] 28:24 He handed down a pair of Pradas that I... to me that I like. And I... They're not my first sorta... 28:33 Luxury shoes aren't the first thing I'm like, I think about, but after wearing those, I'm like, "Oh, like, they're actually pretty comfortable." Um- But now, now, now when you wear them- Yeah... 28:46 what are you wearing them for? I, I, I just... What we're talking about, and again, this in itself is a full episode or at least like- [laughs]... a full extra segment. Yeah But I think it, it's... 28:55 We're moving, we're, we're now towards a world of utility. Yep You're talking about wearing a Prada- Yep... shoe. Great. Yeah Beautiful shoe. Beautiful shoe, luxury brand. But are you putting that shoe on every day? 29:09 Look, you're wearing your New Balances right now. So how often are you wearing a Prada sh- Like, it's... Sometimes I wanna put my Birkenstocks on. Yeah I, I, I love to like touch grass. 29:19 I wanna be able to slip on, slip off- Yep... and be one with like the elements and not feel like I'm like being s- you know. I think every day is kind of like- Yeah... a different- 29:28 Um, the New Balances and the Pradas I wear almost all the time. Got it Um, like I'm- Got it Yeah. But, uh, to each his own. Like, some people are like, "I'm only gonna wear those sometimes." 29:40 But I've made the, the, the Pradas my everyday shoes. Mm. Interesting. Um, and I think it's cool. Like, they're getting dirty, but I th- dirty, you know what I mean? Ooh Like that kind of vibe. 29:50 I, uh, one shoe I don't know that I like right now are the Solomons, 'cause I have wide feet. Like, I thought they looked so cool. 29:57 Oh, yeah But like, they hurt my feet, so it's just- They did a great, they did a great job on the marketing, but they are, they are a narrow shoe. Yeah They are definitely meant for a narrow user. 30:07 Yeah, so I gotta, I gotta figure that out. Yeah. Um- And I actually, I w- I like Crocs, um, but a coup- like a, the Salehe Bembury Crocs. They're, they're- Mm-hmm... dope. I will wear those. Um, but I also like Birks. 30:22 Anyways, uh, we should probably talk about the, to your point that we could continue talking about this forever, uh, but another fun piece of news has to do with the city I currently live in, uh, Nashville. 30:34 VidCon, which I feel like w- the creator, uh, both the creator, the fan, and the executive grew up going to, if you were in this business for a while, in Anaheim, is now- Yeah... moving to Nashville. 30:49 And not only that, they are officially partnering with Lions Creators, which is a derivative of the Cannes Lions, and they will be popping up at Cannes Lion now as well. So this is interesting news in my opinion. 31:04 Um, over the last couple years, uh, VidCon and Cannes have been going on at the same time, but there's been more creators going to Cannes. Yeah. 31:14 And I, I don't know that I s- I, I could maybe have seen a move of VidCon to a different date, but I couldn't have predicted the official partnership and the moving to another city, let alone Nashville. 31:27 It feels like there's a lot to unpack here. Um, you've been to Cannes a bunch lately, you know, doing the creator thing. Yeah. So you probably have a lot of thoughts here. Um, but you know. I... Hmm-hmm. Yeah. 31:42 You know what I think is gonna happen? Mm. Or, or you know my... Well, you know what my... M- here's my gut. Yeah. Here's my gut reaction. 31:48 Uh, Cannes Lion took a stab at, the last two, three years, they took a stab at programming at Lion- Mm-hmm... 31:59 in terms of bridgi- like, book- starting to properly, like, book talent, content talent, creator talent to show up in, in France and be there and, and give, give spiels. Yeah. 32:12 Uh, talk about what it means to be a creator, given the fact that, like, really what, what is happening, and what has always been happening at Cannes Lion, MIPCOM, like, a lot of these conferences that are happening in the south of France- Yep... 32:24 specifically, you know, how do they leverage more creators being there so that they can get more brand dollars to, to stay at Lion? Mm-hmm. So 32:33 when I hear about this collaboration, Anaheim has definitely, uh, when they previously started there, everyone told themselves, "Hey, go be n- right next to Disneyland. 32:42 Let's go get YouTubers who, you know, people can go see their favorite YouTubers, collaborate, run around and do the thing- Yeah... and then go on off to Disneyland. 32:52 It's perfect for everyone to stay over, you know, on a vacation." Yep, yep. And YouTube really helped pump a lot of dollars to the conference. Mm-hmm. And Paramount, of course- Yep, yep... 33:05 given the fact that they had Nickelodeon, Awesomeness TV. Aw- Awesomeness- Yeah... if I'm not mistaken, owned VidCon. Vi- Viacom, I believe, acquired, uh, VidCon for a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 33:18 And they ended up spinning it off, but 33:21 they s- the, the purpose of that was live events, how do we funnel, and, you know, with, with, with the purchase or with the acquisition of, of Awesomeness TV, this could be a great, uh, cross-pollination- Yep... 33:32 uh, and we could maximize, uh, both, you know, all, all opportunities for all. Mm-hmm. And I think that, you know, once... Yeah, it really, really started losing its foothold at the ep- you know, uh, after year... 33:47 I, I think it really started to lose its foothold once TikTok... Like, like, just pre-COVID- Mm-hmm... candidly, or, or, or, or just, just on the precipice of COVID. 33:56 I think COVID really created more of a TikTok, stay at home, scroll, watch my favorite people via the str- via, uh, streaming wasn't really full... Uh, yeah, I guess people were starting to stream. 34:09 Uh, but watch from pro- watch from the safety of your home. Mm-hmm. 34:12 Kind of that's, not too dissimilar to that of, like, do I need to really go out in public to watch these people and then consume content, than, like, go out and, like, go see a movie? Mm-hmm. 34:22 And so it lost that pull in the same way. At least that, that's my personal opinion. Yeah. And so moving to a space or a place like Nashville, booming, or you, you, you live there. Yeah. 34:34 I'd love to get the, the, the tidbits of, of your experience the last- I have them... two years. But, like, it's perceived as a bright, booming economy. Uh, new families. Mm-hmm. Younger odd- younger people. 34:48 And so I don't think it's a bad move. I think that them moving to Nashville is better for VidCon. I don't think it's a great play. 34:58 I, I actually, I'm more worried that it's the beginning of the end of Cannes Lion, at least the Lion that I know. 'Cause I, you know- Mm... I'm more worried about oversaturation- Yeah... 35:07 and people trying to, like, build all this programming. Um. Yeah. Well, what I've- There... what I, what, what, what's been said is that Cannes Lion is not gonna be for the fans. 35:19 So at least there, there shouldn't be saturation in that POV, unless you get really sort of crazy fans wanting to crash the party. But, uh, the way they made it sound is it's meant more to be professional. 35:33 So yes, it might be even more saturated, but, um, done right, it really only means more creators, right? Yeah. Which add to the, hopefully, value of, of Cannes Lion. 35:47 Um, and then Nashville is gonna replace the, uh, the traditional, like, fan-centric event, but also have the executive track, you know, et cetera. I mean, I think- Right... I think this is 36:02 the, the one, naturally, the one thing I'm really curious about is why Nashville? 36:06 Is it just a cheaper convention center, or is it because they believe something about Nashville and na- and m- you know, it's probably a mixture of both. Um- 36:16 I think it's probably credits Yeah I think there's a variation of tax credits that the... 36:21 I mean, listen, we, we're ta- opened this whole show up with talking about Ellison Yep Literally Sky Dance talked about moving to Nashville Exactly That was a big threat- Yep... to California. Mm-hmm. 36:31 So Nashville's definitely fighting the good fight to get- Yeah... more, more economics coming to it. Yeah. Um, well, so basically right now it is, um, it's very unique. 36:46 It's, it's got all the talent agencies are here, right? So i- in a way, it is an extension of, of, um, LA, right, uh, and New York. And so, um, you have the executive class. 37:00 There's even people, you know, uh, two that come to mind, they're friends of ours, Chris and Andrew at CAA, right? They, they rep creators, um, and they're in Nashville. Don't, don't, don't let UTA know. 37:11 [laughs] They might, uh, think that, um- Um- Kidding. Kidding But, um, I will say I think this is meant to be, to your point, you were talking about how Anaheim has been a destination, right? 37:22 You go to, you go to VidCon, and then you hang with the, um, you hang with, uh, y- Disneyland, whatever. The same thing can happen in Nashville. 37:31 You go to, you go to VidCon, and then you have Broadway, you have country music. Like, it's still fun. It's an entertainment tourist- Right... destination, A. B, there's actually a lot of creators that live here. 37:43 Uh- Oh... uh, a lot, you know? And, and, and there's, there's different kinds, you know? And, but- Right... there are lifestyle type creators- Yeah... mom, you, you know- Yeah... family type creators. 37:55 Um, so there's, there's a big creator scene here too. So, um- You could, you could say really starting do, uh, building a hub in a space where it's really getting back to its roots or getting back to community- Mm-hmm... 38:09 is important, I think. Yeah I think by way of building in Los Angeles, uh, I, I, I think LA gets a bad rap by way of the fact that Hollywood is here. Yeah. 38:19 Though, um, I think what we have to remind ourselves, uh, I find a lot of times talent that I interact with or work with and talk to, a lot of their feelings or concerns around LA tends to be that it's very superficial, very vapid. 38:34 Mm-hmm. Uh, that it's very transactional as it pertains to the collaboration- Yeah... with people in LA. Or p- uh, coll- i- it, it creates a little bit more of like a what do you have to offer me? Yep. And 38:48 though those feelings are true, and that is there, that, or that, that exists, I think that we have to remind ourselves that i- ironically enough, you know, I have to sit with that. 38:57 And, and though it feels superficial, I think what's also important, and, uh, you can have a glass half empty, glass half full type of mindset, but there is only so much time in a day. Yep. 39:09 And it's a helpful reminder that if you have to commute from point A to point B, and you're trying to justify your time and optimize your position in the market- Mm-hmm... 39:24 you have to focus on what's gonna be the, have the most impact. Yep. And so I don't wanna come up with excuses. I mean, I think a lot of times people are like, it's like that LA maybe. 39:34 It's like, "Yeah, maybe we hang out," and then it never happens. Mm-hmm. It doesn't come to life, and you're like, "Okay, you just wasted my time." Mm-hmm. 39:40 But hopefully LA can bring a little bit more of that New York directness of like, "Yeah, we're just not gonna do it, but it's okay. I love you. Respect." Mm-hmm. But, like, um- Yeah... 39:49 'cause in LA you gotta be everyone's friend. [laughs] Yeah. Or, or, or look like it as such, you know? Yeah. Well, um, full circle, we'll see, we'll see what's gonna happen. Something I'm gonna be tracking. 40:00 I, I feel like it may, there's a world where it becomes this sort of like, uh, chamber of commerce style move. Like I could see people- Mm... coming and then being like, "Oh, I like Nashville," and, you know. 40:12 Just kinda how I feel like South by Southwest was a big reason that people started to look at Austin as a place to- Right... to live, you know. 40:21 Are you just, are you just trying to get all of us to move to, to Nashville right now? Maybe. Maybe. It's a little bit of the val- [laughs] Yeah. Got it. This is all for- [laughs]... 40:27 for Boyz valuation on the house to go up. We get it. All right. Uh, we should talk about the last topic. 40:36 Uh, Ari Emanuel, he's got a book coming out, and, uh, I'm gonna call this maybe part one of something, uh, that, you know, we should probably have another conversation simply because Ari is, you know, he's the titan of industry, you know? 40:53 There's a handful of huge people in the entertainment industry. Ari's been on top for most of the time. Yeah. 41:02 He has a character, uh, on Entourage, Ari Gold, that I would argue to say Entourage inspired a good portion of our generation to work there. 41:12 So he, he's someone worth talking about when he, when he decides to come out of the ward work and, and make some noise. So, um, yeah. I also think this is a really interesting episode- Yeah... 41:22 to have married with the Ellison consolidation conversation- Yeah... because this is no knock to, this is, this is no knock to, like, you know, CAA, and Bryan, Kevin, and Richard by any means. Yeah. 41:37 They are obviously, uh... But the, the point I'm about to illustrate is Jeremy Zimmer steps down from UTA, which for the longest time we had, there were, there was, there was the Ovitz class- Yep... 41:50 uh, Michael Ovitz class of CAA and, and, and that, and that regime. Mm-hmm. But I, I think right now, like when we think of agencies, CAA, UTA, WME- Yep... 42:02 and predominantly for the first part is really CAA and WME always going head-to-head. It was Ari Emanuel- Mm-hmm... and Patrick Whitesell. 42:12 But Ari Emanuel, and then you had the three-headed hydra that was Bryan, Kevin, and Richard. Yep. And Zimmer as the third party, you know, UTA being, you know, Zimmer being the, the, the- Third in position there. Mm-hmm. 42:27 Zimmer steps down, there's leadership changes, you know, not, not to suggest... But like, like lesser known or less prominent in, in the market, but like replacing Zimmer. But this is like the end of a legacy. Yeah. 42:39 And I would say like with Ari, or not even just legacy, end of an era of like who can exact a book sale to talk about the history of Hollywood in a way. Mm. You know? Yeah. 42:54 I, I, I couldn't name you another person in Hollywood that would, I don't mean to say have enough impact, but like whose book would be meaningful enough to really justify us all talking about. Yeah. 43:09 Like when Ovitz came out with his official book, it's kind of the same way in which like CAA came out with The Power book or whatever- Yeah... it was called, right? Yeah. This is going to be 43:18 debatably one of the last, unless, unless Richard, Kevin, or Bryan come out with one. Yeah. But they're far less outspoken- Yeah... in that way. Ari's is the biggest. He's the most famous. 43:29 Um, that like, a- any other agency head, we would probably read it, but it would be like the in- like mainly the industry. With Ari, you're gonna get the industry and you're gonna get people outside the industry- Yeah. 43:41 Yeah... um, reading his, his book. I, I do have someone that I think could have been someone we would have read, but unfortunately- Let's hear it. I want... No, no, you can't- Oh... oh, you can't name him. No. 43:54 No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna name him. I just, I just don't think it's gonna happen now, and you'll understand- Yeah... wh- why I'm saying that. But I think if Harvey Weinstein- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah... 44:06 didn't have, you know- Yeah, yeah, yeah. His- Agreed. Agreed... issues. His issues. [laughs] What are you bel- you minimizing his- I'm not minimizing it. Uh. You know? 44:18 If, if he wasn't a criminal, uh, and- Yeah, there you go. There you go. There you go... and, uh- Way to be an ally, boy... [laughs] and hurt, um, hundreds of women, uh, he, he's... His name was known beyond Hollywood. 44:33 Right. Right. Um- That's a great, also though, great flag. Also someone who did a significant amount of business with Ari. Yeah. So when you think about the level of impact. Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah, yeah, you're... 44:45 I, I, yeah, I think so many people would have read that book, or so many people would have like- Yeah... that would have had the same type of monumental like, "This is how you become a producer. 44:54 Here's my experience in my life." Yeah. But I thi- I, I think his book's gonna be huge. I think people are gonna read it. I, you know, it, it... I don't know, 'cause you, you worked at CAA, right? Mm-hmm. 45:04 Did they make you read The Mailroom? No. When you started? No. Okay. So that was required reading for basically every potential assistant going into WME, um, was read The Mailroom. Oh, really? Yeah. 45:17 I think that, that's trippy. Yeah. Yeah. I had read Ovitz's book way, uh, prior to joining, though. Got it. Got it. The first one. There w- well, it wasn't, it wasn't his book. It was a book made... 45:28 It was, it was called Ovitz. Mm. And they, um... Yeah. But I also read The Mailroom- That's-... just out of- Good... out of pure, uh- Good... initiative. 45:38 Yeah, I think, uh, I, I read some of his, like there was like an excerpt in like The Wall Street Journal. It, it, the style feels like it's gonna be very Ari. 45:47 I'm excited to check it out, you know, 'cause it's like he's... He basically admits there's a, he has a falling out with Patrick Whitesell, right? Like- Yeah... 45:55 and he talks about the hostile takeover of WMA before it became, you know, WME. So it's- Right... um, it, it's, it, I think it's gonna be really, really cool. 46:06 Uh, also for people who don't know, Ari's just really born into, uh, a family of really driven men. Uh, his brother Rahm was Obama's Chief of Staff. He was the mayor of Chicago and ambassador to Japan. 46:24 Uh, and some say he may run for president. And then his other brother Zeke is an oncologist and a bioethicist. So, uh, you know, uh, I guess the, what's the saying? The, something doesn't fall far from the tree. 46:39 The apple- Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Yeah, there we go. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. But, um- You see that Ari's also gonna be little, little plug for Warner and AVA. Uh- Oh, yeah, yeah. Yep. 46:49 You see Ari's gonna be on, uh, on there. Yeah. The way that they did it. I thought that was very funny. Yeah. For those that are not aware, uh, A- Assistants Versus Agents, uh, Warner Bailey, who also... 46:59 Was he, did he overlap with you, uh, at, uh, at WME? Uh, after. After me. Yeah. After. Uh, uh, but I, I, I guess Warner was an assistant to Ari, and, uh- I don't know if it was-... texted him. I don't think... 47:11 No, no, he w- I don't know. Uh, maybe he floated at one point. Yeah. I don't know what the, the real history is, but he worked at WME at some point. Yeah. And texted Ari. 47:19 He claims it's a real text message exchange, so- Really? [laughs]... you know? Yeah, yeah, I, I, I, I messaged him on the side and was like, "Is this real?" That's funny. It was, it, it- I saw it. 47:29 He was like, he was like, he was like coy enough. Uh-huh. It, it was like a coy response. Yeah. But like one where like I was like, "Oh," so like it could be or maybe it was manufactured by way of it. But like- Yeah... 47:40 you know, I could believe it. I could believe it. Yeah. 47:42 Uh, for those that are not aware, if you didn't, if you don't follow Assistants Versa- Assistants Versus Agents, uh, basically they just, they text Ari saying, "Hey, Ari, I heard you're good at making deals." 47:52 Uh, it was like, "Congratulations to the..." It was like a two-liner saying, "I hear you're good at making deals. Do you wanna come on the show, talk about the book?" He sent, Ari sent a vomit emoji. Yep, yep. And 48:07 I think the response was, "Great, so we'll have you on." And then Ari gave a thumbs up. Yeah. [laughs] If it was real, that'd be amazing. Um. Right. I mean, of course, of course- Yeah... 48:16 that's more of like a there's a preface back channeling with the assistant or like- Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's so much more. It didn't happen like that, but- Yeah... 48:25 but, um, to further help, uh, expound on the lore, I think it's a, it was a cool way of, of delivering that messaging. Yeah. I love it. I saw your, I saw you, you're hoppin' on. I'll be on next week, so. Yeah. 48:37 Yeah, yeah. Awesome. What are you gonna talk about? Yeah. What not to do. [laughs] Don't follow my mistakes. Don't, you know, just, uh, uh... Yeah, yeah, you know what? You, yeah, what a great plug. 48:47 Let's talk about Ari Emanuel, all the accomplishments and all the things that he's done in, in this world. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go on too. Uh, my name's Chris Sotto. [laughs] I'm still trying. 48:58 Still, still, still trying to get up that hill. Aren't we all? Aren't we all? Yeah. We'll have to tune in. Um, well, I think today's been a good conversation, and, uh, we're all out here trying to make it happen. 49:12 Are we all trying to be Ari? Maybe not. Probably not. Uh, but, uh, I think, uh, he is an inspiration, I would, I would say. Um, and, uh, we'll have to, to wrap and, and, uh, continue this next week. Cool. All right. 49:30 Peace. So let me just add, uh, just so I make sure I'm add, uh, don't forget, find us wherever you listen to podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, and we'll catch you next time. Peace. Out. 49:44 [gentle music] Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over four million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. 49:59 Join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. 50:08 Get $20 in free postage when you sign up for the pro plan at Stamps.com/BlackFriday2026. Terms and conditions apply. [gentle music] This show is brought to you by The Future Party and Crosstalk Studios. 50:22 Produced by Chris Sotto, Hoya Holiday, and Paul York. Special shout-out to our production team, Araceli Rubalcava, Max Goolen, Shannon Klein, and Eli DeVior.
