Transcript 0:00 Still waiting in line, again? That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over four million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. 0:11 Join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. 0:21 Get $20 in free postage when you sign up for the pro plan at stamps.com/blackfriday2026. Terms and conditions apply. [gentle music] Hi, everyone. My name is Boye Kolade, co-founder and president of the Future Party. 0:36 And I'm Chris Sawtelle, CEO and co-founder of Cross Check Studios. And welcome to the Future Forecast podcast where we explore the intersection between business, technology, and entertainment. 0:46 We've done the research so you don't have to, and we're here to give our opinions about news topics and have a thoughtful discussion on the shifting landscape of our culture. Boye Kashia. [laughs] Boye Kashia. 0:56 I love how you were just, like, pointing, like. You made me laugh. That's how, that's why I stuttered a little bit. Oh, it's my fault. Yeah. [laughs] It's my fault. I'm- Understood. No, no, no. It's good. 1:06 [laughs] That's good. It's easy. You're starting to sound like Max. It's my fault. If we don't put that part on, uh- Oh, no. She's fine. She knows. Okay. Look, guys, it's always my fault. [laughs] Let's, let's be real. 1:15 First off, first and foremost, first and foremost, anyone, if you don't know, or if you don't know me, hi, my name is Chris Sawtelle. 1:22 And if you're not familiar with my relationship with my wife, the amazing and incomparable Maxine Bravin, uh, everyone knows I am the problem. Hey, it's me. I'm the problem. It's me. Taylor Swift told me. 1:35 Uh- [laughs] But 100%, dude. Are you kidding? It's me. I'm a diva. I'm a diva and a half. Oh. And I'm fully well aware of it. She is the most grounded, giving, loving, and anchored person. And, um, I'm an Aquarius. 1:48 You know? We're air signs, bro. [laughs] We gotta... We fly, we run around, we do, and she anchors. She pulls me back down to reality and tells me, "Hey, get in line." Shout out to Max for getting Chris in line. 2:00 [laughs] Yeah, yeah. On my way over to get, to get to the pod, hilariously enough, she, she's in, she's, uh, abroad at the moment. Nice. And, uh, uh, I guess where she was, there were some wasps- Ooh... 2:14 running around in the room or in the house where she was. Uh-oh. 2:18 And the little, little, yeah, a little, little, little TO, uh, uh, uh, TMI, but she's like, "Ah, these wasps, I have to s- I need to, they need to, like, get rid of them." And she's... 2:29 I'm on Zoom call or, or video call, and she's trying to, like, she's like, "I'm gonna spider cup them." [laughs] Oh, no. I'm like, "What do you mean you're gonna spider cup them?" 2:37 [laughs] She's seen a video of, like, you know, people trying to get spiders trapped, you know- Yeah, yeah... when you, when you... In cups. And I'm like, "It's a wasp. Do you have a..." 2:47 I was like, "Do you have a towel near you?" [laughs] "What are you doing? Like, like, just smash the fricking thing-" Take a- "... and get rid of it." Take a slipper and boom. 2:56 She goes, "I don't wanna get my arm near it." I'm like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. You're right. But taking a cup-" [laughs] "... 3:02 that, a little Dixie cup and putting it up i- into a flying insect-" [laughs] "... that's really, that's gonna be the smarter thing to do?" Like. I love it. [laughs] Oh, God, I love my wife. We all love our wives. Um. 3:16 Yeah. Amazing. Well, hope she travels safe. Uh, how was your, your screening? You did Read the Room last week. Oh, yeah. Sorry I couldn't make it. Yeah. Looked great. Thank you for... 3:27 You, you didn't travel in, you didn't, you, you didn't, uh, fly in for us? I was tempted. If I wasn't dealing with the home- Yeah... I would've been there. Yeah, fair, fair. It was great. It was great. 3:36 We did, uh, for those that are not aware, uh, a project that, uh, I produced, uh, uh, and, uh, alongside and for Josh Richards, his sketch comedy show that we released, we financed and released on, uh, on, uh, TikTok and Instagram across his socials. 3:55 We did a sc- a pre-screening, um, a little, I'd almost call it... It wasn't a friends and family. Our friends and family is this Saturday. Oh, okay. Cool. And this was more a insider's preview- Nice... for execs and, 4:14 and, and sales teams to, to, to look into from an on, uh, the idea of, like, buying it as opposed to- Oh, yeah, yeah... so. Almost like a mini upfront. Yes, yes. Very much so. 4:25 Just a, but it was, it was a fun, small, intimate, uh... We actually had a great turnout. It was about 120 people- Oh, that's great... uh, came in. Uh, we did it on the Fox lot. That's awesome. And, uh, 4:37 yeah, thanks for asking. Yeah. We're, we're excited. It'll be a lot of fun. Congratulations. A lot of great guests. And, uh, we got season two rearing around the corner. Do you make a cameo? I do not. I do not. 4:50 Maybe- We had a season one, we had a season one cameo. Uh, uh, see, you know, listen, there wa- there was a time and a place and a day, and there are people that know about Chris Sawtelle's acting. I know. 5:00 And I'm not it. I know. Gotta get back out there. This could be your- No, I know... this could be an op. I don't wanna upstage anyone. [laughs] You know what I mean? I don't, I don't, I don't wanna go there and... 5:09 Uh, already, already, like, like, like, TikTok once in a while when you're scrolling, I don't know how, uh, I got onto this TikTok, uh, trend, but if you've ever experienced, uh, there's this one trend where it's like, 5:20 uh, participate in your voiceover role. Mm. Like, like, you'll scroll through, and the way in which the trend plays out is it's like, it narrates 5:30 their part and they go, "And here's your role," almost like, almost like if you're- Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like do a lingo- But do you know what I'm talking about? 5:36 Almost as if you're, like, doing karaoke or something like that. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, that's a better example. 5:40 So it's like the computer or the generated thing will do, like, "Hey, villain, I hate you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Oh. And then cue you. And so, like- That's interesting... 5:51 I'll, I'll, I'll play a villain role and I'll be like, "Well..." So, you know, it's like- [laughs]... that's like, that, that, that's the most acting I, I do these days. That's wild. That's as far as I go. 5:58 That's cool actually. Yeah. Could be a, an app. Um- Do, do you think, uh, do you read bedtime stories? To my daughter? Mm-hmm. Yeah? Yeah. Or, or j- yeah, or just generally. Do you just read, you know- Read... 6:10 you read yourself- We read books... that type of stories? Yeah. Do you ever role play? Like, like, do you, like, play out the characters? Sometimes, yeah. Do you, like, do like the- Yeah... oh, you do. 6:19 Sometimes I get- Yeah... like, a little far out, you know, make, make, make voices a little radical. Did you ever have the itch? Was there ever, was there ever a moment? 6:27 Um, in high school I, I did theater for a little bit. Um- But were you try... Was it like, "I want to do this," or was it like, "Oh, this is, like, the thing that we do in high school"? 6:39 I think it was, like, a thing you do. It's like you do choir, you do... You try everything. Yeah... you know what I mean? Um- Yeah... it's funny you say that, though. 6:45 I'm working on something, um, that we can talk about the details off, off the pod, that, uh, I'm interested in, in, uh, in maybe acting in. But the way I m- mo- the- Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 6:58 If you need someone to do your deal, you let me know. Okay, okay. Um, it's a- The deal guy. [laughs] Deal guy. 7:06 Uh, let's just say the idea is I, I would act, but then we'd use, like, AI to skin the, the motions, like, the VFX, but I would be sort of the actor, if that makes sense. Um- Interesting... just something I'm- Okay... 7:22 dreaming up. Uh- All right. All right... one, one thing that I, uh, have on my mind with Read the Room, though, one of my favorite skits is the one with the alien. I forgot the name of it. Uh, Frat Alien. Yes. 7:36 That- Well, it just, like, w- it depend, depending on the day it's either Alien Frat or Frat Alien, but today we'll say Frat Alien. Okay. I feel like that could be its own series. Like, that is so sick. I love... 7:47 The concept is so funny. Uh, so- I, I love you for that. That is something that we've kicked around for a second, and it's something that we do wanna do. Nice. 7:58 Uh, the, yeah, there is, uh, for those that are not, that have not... For those that have not watched season one, and we so, you know, have to be like, "Ha, go watch it. 8:08 Go, go enjoy," the video or the, the sketch that Boye is specifically talking about, uh, surrounds the, uh, the telling of a alien who crash lands in the backyard of a frat house, and demands that the two frat brothers that find themselves 8:29 totally off their rocker, uh, inebriated one night, tells them both to take him to the president. [laughs] And of course, as you do in such a state, you would take said being to the president of your frat. Yes. 8:46 At which point the alien then, uh, bestows his knowledge across the entire fraternity to say, "Hey, it is your responsibility to showcase to me why humanity deserves to, uh- Wow... exist in totality. 9:01 And if not, you have 24 hours. If you are incapable of showcasing why humanity is a worthwhile entity or endeavor to, to exist across the galaxies, we will mine you for all your resources- [laughs]... 9:16 and eliminate you from ever existing." I love this. Chaos ensues. Yeah. So good. So good. Okay. Read the Room, everyone go check it out. Thanks for that, dude. Um- Uh, you know what? 9:27 I gotta say thank you so much for being a supporter, and thank you first and foremost for being my friend. Of course. 9:32 And it's really nice to know that you, you actually, uh, whether you like it or not, you can always tell me like, "It's shit." But at least, at least, you know- I think it's awesome... you show up. 9:41 So I'm pumped for you guys. Uh, well, um, should we dive in? Yeah, let's dive in. Let's dive in. So we've got a lot. We're gonna continue with the theme of content today. 9:53 We're talking about YouTube, their view counts, um, their plays w- with Netflix, uh, if LA's, if LA's the center of the universe for production anymore, maybe, maybe not, let's see, and, uh, the growing micro drama industry. 10:09 But, uh, why don't we dive in on, on YouTube? Uh, recently, 10:16 YouTube's been in the news a lot lately, and, um, in one week, more or less, uh, YouTube did two things that look unrelated but, you know, maybe are the same move. Um, it redefined a view, 10:31 uh, and, uh, it started paying creators millions not to post on Netflix. And, uh, both are about essentially controlling the scoreboard, what counts as an audience, who gets to claim it, uh, so on and so forth. 10:46 So, uh, a, a public view now counts from the very first frame of playback across long form livestreams, podcasts, and shorts. Uh- That then sounds weird, a public view meaning a view on video. Yes. Yep. 11:01 So every time you see a view, as in the view count on said video of a YouTube- Yeah... channel. And, and the old standard was widely assumed to be about 30 seconds of watch time, and now that's gone. 11:16 Uh, so this now, uh, aligns it with TikTok, Instagram. Uh, X already counts this way. I think they might, X might do two seconds. Um, and, and you- YouTube Shorts has been doing this since, since last March, uh, 2025. 11:33 So, uh, yeah, it's, uh... I mean, this is gonna look inflated I think, right? Um, if, it, it, it'll make YouTube feel more impressive but at the same time- Yeah... 11:47 I think it already s- looked impressive, but maybe, maybe people didn't care that, that their views counted for 30 seconds. I don't know. But, um, yeah, what are, what are your thoughts? 11:56 Uh, uh, I mean, YouTube has had a, especially, es- especially with the youths, uh, 12:02 the biggest issue with YouTube is you want more inventory or new inventory, and by new inventory I mean new voices, new creatives, new people showing up on the platform and making content. 12:14 Which, uh, I think everyone wants. YouTube hasn't had it. Mm. You know, you know, there, there, the... We don't talk about YouTubers anymore, right? 12:24 Or at least we talk a lot about cr- uh, creators, we talk about TikTokers. You don't really talk about Instagrammers or Snapchatters- Mm-hmm... right? It's always been, like, TikTokers or YouTubers. 12:34 My personal thoughts are a younger generation, though loves consuming YouTube, feels like it is incredibly difficult to build a following or an audience on YouTube- Mm... nowadays. Yeah. I can see that. 12:48 And so YouTube has to catch up or has to compete to some degree, because of its algorithm is not... You know, TikTok and Instagram, they are... Those algorithms specifically are engineered to ensure that they help... 13:03 I don't wanna say that they help boost views, but if you understand how best to, uh, feed said algorithm, they're content-based algorithms, you are rewarded for said content and rewarded for the way in which you are... 13:19 Yeah. It, it, it's, it's built towards shareability. Whereas I don't know if YouTube nowadays really has, uh, been able to capitalize in the same way. Also, 'cause you're not consuming as... 13:32 Maybe in Shorts you are, of course- Mm-hmm... but on TikTok and Reels you are scrolling. We talk about the scroll. Yeah. It's addictive. It's a very... 13:40 You're c- it's addictive, but you're also consuming how many more videos at what a, you know, at a much faster rate. Mm-hmm. And so 13:51 who's fault is- YouTube Shorts, though, is, YouTube Shorts, though, is, is similar to TikTok and, and Reels Yeah. But I almost consider it as an entirely separate product. No? Mm-hmm. Like, again, I, I don't, I don't... 14:03 Watch. If I pull up YouTube right now, I'm so curious. Uh, if I, if I pull up YouTube right now- Yeah... 14:09 I would say to you the first thing that pops up for me, it lo- uh, it, it loads, the loading screen happens and what have you, but, like, there's not... 14:17 I have to go to a, I have to go to an entirely different tab just to see Shorts. Shorts. Yeah. So, like, here it's great that I have all this, but, like, I have to click on Shorts, and then I'm... 14:28 I guess I'm then doing the exact same product- Same exact thing. Yeah... even though right now it's not working. Um, but- That is interesting. Yeah. You know? I wonder if they should have their own... 14:37 To your point, maybe they should have their own app. And how often, and how often, and how often are people watching YouTube on their phones? I don't know. I don't know. But- Yeah. Yeah. 14:48 I mean, I think, I think, um, 'cause my siblings are, uh, more or less Gen Z, and they watch everything on their phones and iPads. Uh, so I, I do think the younger generation is all on the YouTube on mobile devices. 15:05 It, it's interesting you say that, just because I feel like in past, in past n- uh, articles and reportings that whether or not they've been specifically articles YouTube has helped service or- Mm-hmm... 15:19 or, or, or surfaced or- Yeah... or have garnered, you know, uh, with their friendlies. Yeah. I feel like the narrative has always been YouTube is premium, like TV. Yeah. It is a widget. 15:30 You know, they, they really tried to push so much of it not being on the computer or on the phone, and more- Yeah... on the screen. Yeah. Well- And so it's just interesting. Yeah. I think it's both. 15:41 I think you're completely right. One, one recent thing that comes to mind is the idea that, like, YouTube TV viewership is dominating, right? Whether that's YouTube TV or people just watching YouTube. 15:55 But I think it's a signal that YouTube is, is everywhere, whether, like, truly whether you're on your phone, you're watching something on your phone or on your television. 16:05 To me, that, that was the weirdest unlock, was, um, the idea that people will sit and watch YouTube on their couch. 16:13 But honestly, this morning with my daughter, we threw up, uh, a fun kids show on, on k- kids music on YouTube. And that was, like, as I'm talking, I'm like, "Oh, I get it," right? Like- Yeah... 16:28 YouTube is accessible, easy, everywhere. And, uh, you know, we're in a hotel right now, so they make it easy for you to plug it in, you know. Um- Right. 16:40 One thing that's interesting, though, with this, with this news is that the increase, this, this idea of, uh, let's call it inflate- inflating their views does not increase- Yeah... the, the money. 16:52 So you're still gonna get paid the same amount that you would- Yeah. Someone... 16:56 I, I remember a couple articles coming out, particularly one of the newsletters I follow, the big clickbait headline was, "Being a Creator Just Got Harder." And it's like- Mm-hmm. Yeah. 17:08 So I'm, I'm, I'm seeing that slop and clickbait content, um, uh, may not, uh, do as well, um, because they're looking at engaged metrics. 17:21 Um, so, and, and so y- so your point, I think YouTube is tightening their requirements. Um- Yeah... so yeah, it's a, it's the Wild West. So, so s- you know, we're talking about television and, and 17:36 over the last couple pods we've talked about Netflix, and Netflix sort of seemingly pushing towards YouTube's ecosystem, right? Yeah. 17:46 They've, they've announced big deals of bringing over, uh, creators, um, in, like, a second window format. Um, even doing deals with a lot of the Penske businesses, um, like THR, et cetera, for, like, Shorts. 18:03 And, um, the You- the, the, the YouTube talent that they've been signing, again, they're non-exclusive, has been everyone from Hot Ones to Kill Tony, um, Alan Chicken Chow, Nick Di- DiGiovanni 18:19 And, um, amidst all of this, YouTube is offering popular channels millions to upload exclusively for a set window. Yeah. 18:29 And- You know what's interesting is that they don't, in that article that you just were reading off some of the talent, what they don't mention is Jake Shane. Oh. Because Jake Shane 18:37 did, if I'm not mistaken, have to go exclusive. Mm. So I think that was one of the part of the things that was like the- the divide, so to speak. Ah. But doesn't Jake- Mm... doesn't Jake have a, he has a- 18:49 a Netflix show, doesn't he? Netflix. Well, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. A YouTube show. And that YouTube show, Therapuss- Yep... transitioned from being on YouTube to Netflix. 19:03 Oh, you're saying Netflix made h- made him exclusive? Mm-hmm. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah. Yep. I don't know what the windowing is. Like, literally I'll go right now and see. 19:11 I know, I know that he is capable, like, I believe his, obviously his catalog is still there. It's not like they- they could, like, just, like, take it down. Yeah. But if you type in, we'll go right now. 19:23 Uh, yeah, it's on there, but it's all Netflixified. Yep. Yep. Last video as of now, it looks like they, you know, the last video was up 11 months ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I see that. 19:36 So that whole, that whole library and catalog is all up. Yeah. So that's kind of the basis of- Mm-hmm. Yeah, and so- so apparently YouTube is doing two forms. One, uh, they're directly financing programs 19:50 and, uh, and then two, allotting creators a portion of major brand deals. 19:55 So, um, apparently nothing is- is- is finalized, but they're close to- to, um, several partners here and, um- Can I, can I be real on that for a second? Yeah. Can I kinda, like... Uh, I love all the platforms equally. 20:12 They're all great. Mm-hmm. But when I hear you read that, like, that they're, that YouTube is giving partial, you know, brand money to the creator and whatever- Mm-hmm... 20:24 I wanna be r- I wanna be so real and something that I- I was literally talking with some of the- the- the employees yesterday that I really struggle with- Mm-hmm... 20:33 is one, how hon- how honest am I allowed to be on social media as it relates to partners- Yeah... 20:41 and those in the ecosystem as it relates to, like, deal-making or how they support, because I don't wanna alienate or villainize myself or make anyone, like- Mm-hmm... be like, "Fuck that guy." But 20:51 having said that, when I hear that sentence that YouTube is allowing for creators to have, participate more in the brand deal- Mm-hmm... I'm like, "That's fucking bullshit." 21:02 Like, like that- that's- that's not even, that's not a real, that- that's not real. Mm. You, that's... 21:09 And- and what I mean by that is all they're doing is allowing their sales force to go out into the market and go get brands to buy in- Mm-hmm... 21:20 to either a creator's show or into their, into the YouTube ecosystem- Mm-hmm... and saying, "Hey, creator, we sold this through. We now have this money." Yep. "We're now gonna divvy it up and give you a 21:36 decent split, or we'll let you participate in it." But, like- Mm-hmm... there's no, there- the there's no risk involved. Mm-hmm. YouTube didn't do anything to- to aid the creator in taking that risk. 21:50 The creator supplied them with sales materials- Mm-hmm... to sell that through. Now, maybe there's some deal-makings that I'm not aware of that they did put a little bit more money where their mouth is. Mm-hmm. 22:02 But- [gentle music] Still waiting in line, again? That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com. Over four million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com. 22:17 Join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. 22:27 Get $20 in free postage when you sign up for the Pro Plan at stamps.com/blackfriday2026. Terms and conditions apply. 22:38 You know, it's not, I don't, I think that that is just cheap language in an article that makes them sound fluffy and nice and good and being creator friendly or creator first, and it's not. Yeah. 22:52 Now, I, it's a business, and I should tell myself to go F myself, but, like, 22:57 you know, YouTube is the place that has, outside of Meta, has paid the most creators and has helped support creators to, like, really launch and use their products and do. Mm-hmm. 23:06 YouTube pays a significant amount of money, for sure. Um, but I don't know. They did away with brand, uh, Brand Connect and, and a bunch of other initiatives. Yeah. 23:16 I just don't think they- they support the creator as much as they used to. Yeah, I mean, to your point though, I mean, one, uh, part, I mean, it looks like some of it they're financing. 23:25 But for what you've been leaning in on this idea that you can have our sales team, right, is essentially what I'm hearing. I agree. It's- it's- it's not, um, I mean, there's time, but it's not that big of a risk. 23:39 The sales team is canvassing everything already. Um, I think what I'm curious about is if there will be blowback in that they're clearly doing it for a handful of creators- Yeah... right? And so- Yeah. Yeah... 23:56 um, if you're a reputable creator and you're not, you're not getting in on this program, are you, does this put you, f- push you further away from YouTube, or does it make you wanna invest in YouTube even more? 24:11 Um, may- maybe a mixture of both, you know? Don't, don't, don't, don't bite the hand that feeds you, right? Mm-hmm. 24:17 And you can't really speak up too much because if you speak up too much, then you're really not gonna be invited into that club. Yep. Yep. Right? 24:24 And, and honestly, here's what's a little scary is, is, you know, is this is essentially shots fired from, from YouTube, and I think creators- They risk being sidelined when they work now with Netflix you know, um- Oh, interesting... 24:41 and you know, uh- You think? If like if you post simultaneously. Yeah, if they mean they're basically saying, "We don't want you to to post your work on Netflix." You know? And, um, you know, YouTube can do anything. 24:54 They can ch- tweak algorithm, they can... You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like- Yeah... it, it could be like a, a shadow program too. It doesn't necessarily, um, it doesn't necessarily 25:07 mean that they are, it's just something to, to think about. But- I, I just- Yeah... think that's so cheap. Mm-hmm. 25:12 I just think that's so ch- I, I think, uh, cheap in the sense of like you have no problem paying celebrities to validate your, you know, initiatives as you wanted to onboard more talent to be a part of YouTube to make it more of like a ecosystem. 25:26 Mm-hmm. And yet if there's creators or talent that are trying to further build their star or build their themselves- Mm-hmm... in a way you're punishing them for trying to further expand their audience. Yep. Yep. 25:40 I mean, it's business. I get, I, I get why they're doing what they're doing. They don't wanna bleed out more audience or have their audience go to different platforms- Yeah. Well, some of the-... 25:48 for their beloved creators- Yeah... but you gotta pay for that. I, and I would argue say maybe a silver lining is this is bringing back a world of, of syndication, right? 25:57 Because some of these deals aren't necessarily never post, it's just we want a longer window, right? Right. We don't, we don't want you to go right to Netflix or do it right away. Mm. 26:07 We, we need it on YouTube for six months, right? Because we want advertisers to, to be happy, and then you can go on Netflix. 26:16 So in one world, the, it becomes windowing, and now your IP can, can actually last longer and make money, right- Mm-hmm... um, uh, across the digital plane, right? Not necessarily- Yeah. Sure... 26:31 you know, and even, even Netflix doing it, right? They, they are already... The more I think about it, what a boon, right? For, for digital, digitally native content because, you know, and it's windowing, right? 26:46 It's saying, "Yeah, we could buy, you know, DC movies and, and, and license them, but w- you know, and we can now license YouTube content," right? 26:54 And so now you're seeing a, a marketplace and a financial ecosystem for, for YouTube and, and I'm, I wouldn't be surprised TikTok and, and, and, and Instagram very, very, very soon. Yeah. So it's, uh, it's the Wild West. 27:12 A lot of these companies, they need, they need LA to function. Uh, that's where the business is, it's where a lot of the creators are. Uh, but recently- You're coming for us. You're coming for us B. 27:23 [laughs] You're coming for us. Um- You got the LA hat you're repping. Yeah. I'm fighting the good fight. I'm, I'm a, I'm LA born, and raised. That's true. That's true. 27:32 Um, y- you know, L- Los Angeles has literally been the entertainment capital for 100 years, more than 100 years. Yeah. And, you know, it's inspired so many people. I didn't... 27:46 I, I was born in Nigeria, and then I grew up Minnesota, and I ended up in LA. And to me, LA has always been the epitome of the American dream, right? And I like to say that I think our nation's 28:03 biggest export is actually movies. It's telling stories. It's what... It's, it's subtle propaganda of freedom and democracy and, and LA- Interesting... has been the hub of that. 28:18 And recently, you know, as we know, the industry has been up and down between AI, strikes, consolidation, lost jobs. We, we, you and I probably know people who haven't had a job for, for multiple years that want a job. 28:35 Mm-hmm. And, uh, we're hearing more and more other places starting to create content, and California understands this. They recently doubled their tax credit to $750 million and, 28:53 um- I don't know how easy it is to get that credit out, by the way. I, I find... I'm, I'm hearing it's harder and harder to actually get those actually done. Yeah. 29:01 I think, I think, um- How familiar are you with how tax credits work and- You have to, the... Essentially you have to apply for it. You have to be under a certain, like there's a certain, um- Yep... 29:13 you kind, you, you, you, you... I'm somewhat familiar because we, we were looking at applying for them actually for this upcoming season. Mm-hmm. 29:24 Uh, at minimum for the tax credits, the, the barrier, the, the, the lowest barrier at entry is you have to be a minimum of a million dollars- Yeah... if I'm not mistaken. And we just... 29:38 We're, we're trying to keep our budgets low- Mm-hmm... given that they're internet- Yep. I get it... shows. Yeah. 29:45 And so we come in under that, and there's been discussion around, [laughs] "Let's spend more money to then save more," you know? [laughs] Yeah. It's, it's kinda- Yeah... 29:53 you know, the irony of that is like you're still spending that money, but then you're just getting more money, I guess technically to the budget, so to speak. Yeah. 30:00 Um, but one of the, the big key things is that the, there's specific, the, the, there's specific criteria that you have to hit when submitting for the credits. Yeah. 30:08 And so literally like, like someone is au- does the audit, and looks through your projects and goes, "Okay, you, you checked the box." Yep. 30:16 "You'll be one of the 40 that is in this category that we're going to allow or we're going to like award for the credit." Yep. Yep. Yeah. 30:24 So, um, for those of you who don't know how tax creds- credits work, um, this is the high level version, and Chris, corre- correct me anywhere you see I'm wrong. 30:34 But- Basically, if you spend a certain amount of money in a specific state that state might have tax credits where they go, "Because you've spent this money, you've injected it into our economy, we'll pay you back a certain percentage, therefore lowering your actual cost of the movie that you made." 30:55 Yeah. And this has been going on for a very long time. Recently, though, it has attracted, um, productions into little mini hubs, uh, all around the world. 31:11 Um, I, I think one of the biggest moments of the sort of the tax credit, um, revolution was, was Atlanta, right? When you had, like, all the Marvel movies being filmed in Atlanta. 31:24 Vancouver's now a major hub for tons of productions and that, that to me, regardless of all the nitty-gritty or the numbers or why people get tax credits, that to me has been the most interesting thing. Uh, the... 31:39 Here's a stat, 81 countries now use filming as economic development. The UK alone spent 2.2 billion on film and TV subsidies in 2024, and its credit uniquely covers backend participation. So 31:55 it's like can, can California keep up is the question. 32:00 Well, the problem, the problem with LA, or the problem with California for a while, and, and I think this, this is the mis- I don't wanna call it a mistake, this is, this is how we got to where we are. Yeah. 32:09 And we're going to go so deep into this, but it is the rema- it is the, the reason why so many have left. Mm-hmm. California specifically played the game of we're California. Mm-hmm. 32:20 You wanna sh- film in LA, the convenience is here, you want to be here. Mm-hmm. And so they charged a premium to film. Yep. 32:31 Uh, and so it got to a point where as we've been getting closer and w- as it's beco- it, as it's become harder and harder, as, as productions sadly are squeezed more and more for their budgets, and when I say squeezed, what I mean to say is, as the unions demand higher rates for individuals' services, it becomes harder and harder to raise capital or raise enough capital to properly provide said funds to those who are 33:07 creating or offering their talents to your productions. Something that, that... I mean, even at the, at the scale in which we play at- Mm-hmm... it's very difficult to... Not very. 33:20 It can be tricky at times to back creative or, or, or talent into a project because they want certain amounts of money. 33:32 And of course they want the justification of they, they, they, they, they believe in their work or their art being, 33:39 you know, they're, they're able to charge at a certain fee or a certain, you know, threshold, financial threshold. Mm-hmm. And what is happening more and more is that there's less projects out there. And so I'm seeing... 33:50 I, I was making a joke to you, I think, uh, offline about Nova, about a, but a hiring- Yeah, yeah... uh, company. 33:58 Literally, literally talking about how it's li- it was like $15,000 for a stylist for the day or for a project for a day rate, and I was like, "15 grand? Oh my g- where, where, where is that money coming from?" Yeah. 34:11 Like, like, there, there, there are productions for 15 grand. Mm-hmm. And yet your stylist is getting that? And now again, we have phenomenal stylists. We know phenomenal stylists. 34:21 I do not wanna suggest that 15 grand is not something that the right person with the right project does not deserve. Mm-hmm. But, you know- Yeah... I don't know where people are getting some of these rates. Yeah. 34:32 No, I mean, it, it, it, to your point, it- 'Cause I'm not making the money, I'll tell you that much. [laughs] I think it, to your point, depends on the production. Like, I, I don't know what that job was. 34:41 Like, could it have been, like, a fashion shoot or a commercial? 'Cause sometimes, you know, those can- No, of course. You know? Of course. I'm... Yeah. Yeah. It's all, it's all, it's all productions. Yeah. 34:51 It's kind of why, it's, it's kind of why I think it was so valid the, the talking point about Obsession- Yeah... when everyone was trying to be up in arms about... 35:02 When everyone was trying to give shit to the producers or whomever made, you know, uh, you know, it's, there's no question. Obsession's made how much? It's like- I think recently it crossed a million... 35:10 I think it recently broke the 500 million- Yeah... threshold. When people wanted to give shit, being like, "They should give that money back to some of the creators, the, the creatives involved." Yeah. 35:18 Now, again, is that a really nice thing to do, to offer to the creative team that was involved and supported and, you know, uh, put their blood, sweat, and tears into the product? Absolutely. For sure. But, but 35:34 something that I really wanna, like, I'm putting my, my hard hat on here, 35:40 I'm tired of coddling bullshit, and I don't wanna say that talent is bullshit or talent is, like, being coddled, but I think that we are, we are... 35:49 It is harder and harder to make money these days, and if you're willing to be the person to take the risk, then... A- and by take risk, I mean the amount of producers, entrepreneurs who 36:01 don't get paid on a day-to-day basis or defer their payment on projects or defer their payment and white-knuckle it and take the risk- Mm-hmm... deserve the reward. Yeah. 36:13 I don't think it's fair for people to say, "Hey, pay me upfront to make, to do what I feel that I love the most." Yeah. "Give me money for my passion. Oh, and it made, it made more money? Hey, money please. 36:25 Money please." Yeah. [laughs] If you're familiar with that, uh, if you're familiar with the Jenny Slate, uh, sound. Well, I think- Yeah... I think though, and it... I, I... Look, being an entrepreneur, I get it. 36:37 What I see with the Obsession case in particular, it's, it's almost a cry for- Back end and equity right? Kinda what Ben Affleck's doing with Artists Equity and Matt Damon, right? 36:49 It's this idea of could Obsession, because it was low budget, have given points to the crew and maybe, maybe that's coming. You know, maybe, maybe not. 37:02 Um- We were just negot- I just negotiated a, a deal for a talent that I represented- Mm-hmm... particularly on one of these low budgets. It was a budget that was, you know, under essentially 300 grand. Mm-hmm. 37:14 And they made like a side pool where they gave like 5%. Yeah. Uh, uh, but, but even in that it was a very... If I'm being honest, like, I was not happy with that negotiation whatsoever- Yeah... 37:27 'cause the producers were not realistic. Yeah. Being on the opposite side- Yep... they were like, "We wanna recoup everything," which rightfully so, they should. Mm-hmm. 37:35 But they also then wanted the talent to basically play producer- Mm... and promote the hell out of the movie and leverage their social media to like push the movie out- Yep... tenfold. 37:45 And I was like, "Well, you're, you're only... You're actually having them defer their money." Mm-hmm. "You're, you're only paying them 2,000 for 14 days." Yeah. Like, we charge 50K plus for a social for that person. 37:59 Yeah. Like- Yeah... anyway. No. It's... Look, it's, it's, um, it's interesting. I think here's where I'm really curious, like full circle this idea of productions leaving LA, quote unquote, right? 38:12 And, um, I'll, I'll pose my question with also a, a, a more recent reality of this pressure being David Ellison sort of saying, "I'm, I'm... I might leave LA if we don't get a deal done," right? With Austin- Yeah... 38:29 Tennessee, and Georgia being- I heard about that... being sort of the top three choices. Is, is LA as a cultural creative hub under threat? 38:43 Like, will Hollywood be Hollywood in 10, 15, 20 years? I think we're talking about two different things now. Okay. I think that technology, generally speaking, has just completely uprooted what it means. 38:59 You know, God, this is such like a, this is such a deep conversation- [laughs]... uh, that hasn't even begun. 39:05 But I think what you have to unpack there is ultimately, like, the gatekeeping that was Hollywood, starting ever since the 1920s or the 1950s- Mm-hmm... 39:14 maybe from the, the '20s to the '50s and now what we've known all the way up to the 2000s, most people from a financial perspective couldn't own a camera. Mm-hmm. 39:23 Didn't have the capability of even making a movie- Yeah... or making something, radio waves or making projects to put on screen. Mm-hmm. 39:32 So if you don't even have the capability of making it, then you don't have the capability of distributing it and promoting it. Mm-hmm. 39:38 And given that traditional Hollywood or the traditional entertainment system owned both the making and the distribu- the, the making and distributing of said content, you had the full flywheel effect of being able to say... 39:52 Like, it's Plato's Allegory. You're able to say, "Hey, we're making it, and then we're going to show it to you, and you're going to watch it, and we control the stars. 40:01 We, we control everyone that you s- we control everything you, uh, eat, breathe, and sleep-" Mm... essentially. Mm-hmm. 40:10 And so now as that has been democratized, pending algorithms on, uh, on, on, on social platforms- Mm... you don't need to be... You, you, you can be the arbiter of your own ecosystem. Mm-hmm. And so I just... 40:26 I guess what I'm trying to get at is is that Hollywood, I think when you're eliciting, like, do you need to be in LA or... I think Hollywood's threshold or Hollywood's grapple on, or Hollywood's 40:40 control, generally speaking, to the masses is very much lessening and waning. Mm-hmm. And at least like in the, in the Illuminati, quote un- [laughs] I'm doing air quotes, guys, just to be very clear. 40:54 Like, in like that behind closed doors- Yeah... uh, eyes wide shut type of way- Yep... that regime definitely has to find a new- Yeah... way of, of doing. Yeah. No. 41:09 It, it's, um, it's something I, I'm, I've been thinking about a lot, obviously being someone who, who's not currently living in LA, right? 41:16 Living in Nashville and seeing a cr- another creative hub, you know, and an epicenter in its own way of creativity. But I'm, I'm reminded r- of recent... Like, I think Tyler Perry is maybe the mo- most traditional person 41:32 that has, like, created their own ecosystem around them. But now you're seeing- Yeah... you know, MrBeast in the Carolinas. You have KeKe Palmer in, uh, Alabama, I believe. 41:44 Like, these people who are building teams and productions. Zach King in Orange County. Like, you know, it's, it's, um... But everyone still does business in LA, right? 41:55 But to your point, um, the gatekeeping is going away. And so if the gatekeeping goes away, if the incentives brings, bring productions anywhere and everywhere, if the next MrBeast can show up anywhere, 42:13 like, is LA gonna be LA in 10, 15, 20 years? Max tried, Max has tried to get us to move from LA. Really? I didn't know this. Yeah. Yeah. At least, at least she, you know, she wanted to do a year in New York. Hmm. 42:29 And, um, I'm not saying that that wouldn't be fun. Yeah. But, you know, New York, in my opinion, New York is a young man, a young person's- [laughs]... young person's world. Yeah. I agree. Particularly Manhattan. Yeah. 42:42 And I'm not saying that I'm old by any means. I would, I would thrive. But- But, but again, like you don't raise kids on Manhattan. I mean- Some do, but it's a lot... some do, but the amount of money that is- Oh, yeah... 42:52 required to properly do that. 10 mil in your bank account. And so, like especially like let's, let's look at like the name, the, the, the places that you've mentioned. Mm-hmm. Nashville. 43:04 Uh, Nashville, Austin, or T- Texas for that matter. Yep. So I actually particularly Carolina. Mm-hmm. Alabama. Yep. Georgia, yep. Orange County, more money. Mm-hmm. 43:16 But like generally speaking, not as much film business there. Mm-hmm. I would argue that, I mean, you're looking at Carolina and Alabama specifically and, or Tyler Perry in, in Atlanta. Mm-hmm. 43:30 Not impoverished areas, but more up and coming or spaces that you can gain more land. Mm-hmm. Or more quote unquote "bang for your buck"- Yep... for the investment and the space that you're required, requiring to 43:45 create things. Mm-hmm. Uh, I don't wanna necessarily live there and I don't wanna invest my time there. Mm-hmm. But I think if you're able to get more for it, then your people are willing to go. Yeah. 43:59 Here, here's another thing we should discuss. This is our last sort of topic of conversation. We're talking, we just talked about this idea that Hollywood is theoretically on the fritz, right? 44:11 Um, over 100 years of power that's being threatened, and at the same time we have micro dramas, right? Evolving. E- evolve. Yeah. It's just, it's a transfer of power, transfer of... 44:25 I think it's more, like, just like, like, like the radio, right? Yep. The radio- Yep... had its moment, was in power, and then it transitioned to, you know, the silver screen. Mm-hmm. And then- Yeah... 44:34 it's just gonna evolve. Okay. Evolving. Key, key term. Can micro dramas save Hollywood or become its evolution? Become the thing- Mm... that will make it the epicenter again, right? Um, micro dramas being 44:51 one to two-minute vertical soaps. N- it started as, uh, romance type, you know, stuff. Now, you know, we're starting to see different types of content. Um, a lot of people don't even like the term micro drama. 45:07 They like vertical, vertical dramas or vertical viewing. Um- Yeah... it's, uh, it's expected to generate about 1.5 billion in, in revenue this year. 45:19 Um, everyone from TikTok to Disney, you know, they're all getting into it. Is, is this the, is this the savior? You wanna take that first or me? I can take it. I can take it. Um- I loved your tea up. 45:34 I just feel like I've been going first and I don't wanna be the dickhead being like, "Well," I'm like, "Never mind my opinion." Yeah, so [laughs] here's, here's my thought. 45:43 A lot of work is going to micro dramas right now. They're working. They're- Yeah... they're paying actors. 45:49 May not be a ton, but they're paying actors, they're paying productions, they're creating content, and people are consuming it. Um, 45:58 I think that, I think micro dramas or vertical viewing, vertical video, there will be a marketplace for it. It'll be different. It's not gonna change, like you... Everyone, TV and film will still be around. 46:14 Uh, I think micro dramas, quote unquote, "will be here." Um, I don't know that that will necessarily mean it's Hollywood's to own. 46:26 Um, I think, I think it'll still be distributed in the same way that traditional TV and film is being distributed. Um, but I think the, the deal making will probably stay with, with LA. 46:42 But I, I say that and I'm like, man, like, you know, you know Chris and, and Andrew at CAA, they're building a- Mm-hmm... they're building a, an ecosystem here in Nashville. And they're doing 46:57 deals out here too, you know what I mean? So I think- They're doing the thing... I think it's, um, yeah. I, I, I don't know if it'll be the savior of 47:06 Hollywood, but I think it's going to support a lot of people in Hollywood, give them work, give them new opportunity. We'll see people make a lot of money, become stars from this ecosystem. Um, yeah. 47:22 I'm gonna, if I can chime in- Yeah, chime in... and, and finish you. Here's where I think we're at. Yep. Hollywood can't be saved, and there's not like a means to saving it. Mm-hmm. 47:32 I think that ultimately everyone's like, "What's going on? Why, where is the next movie star? Where are these movie stars? Who is a movie star?" Mm-hmm. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 47:40 Let's quickly ta- Let's talk for a couple seconds around what is actually happening as it relates to content. We started the top of the show talking about the view. Mm. Right? 47:50 We, uh, for those that, that, that have followed all the way through and gotten to where we are t- now, 30 minutes or 40 minutes in, we talked about the view- Mm-hmm... 48:00 on YouTube count, and YouTube specifically needing to make it easier to garner views. Why, and what does that mean? Well, 48:10 as we as a people, as a civilization, are now looking at social currency or our need for social currency, not only just one-to-one relationship on like talking and being IRL, there is so much more of a focus or an imprint on how we show up on social media, how we are seen, how we are perceived, and, and actually where our following is. 48:34 It's why, you know, we've covered on other, other pod episodes the rise of the entrepreneur or the CEO or the founder- Mm-hmm... led, uh, influencer or creator- Yep... for a lack of a better term. 48:47 So if more and more people, and as younger generations rise on social media- And they themselves are all now focused on garnering followers and views. 48:59 If everyone starts to, if the algorithms all tend to aid all of us to where no longer are you going to be only at 100 followers, you know, if you're someone that has somewhere between 100 and 900, the new average could boost in three years to being like everyone has 3,000. 49:17 Mm-hmm. Or the new following is, oh wow, like if you just launched on social media, everyone has 10,000 followers. Mm-hmm. I, I, I don't know. I'm, I'm making up fake numbers here. Yeah. 49:28 But if you then, if everyone then has the capability or if the algorithm is then 100,000 views or a million views, then what do those views mean? 49:37 And if everyone is seeing everyone's work because we're now addicted to this dopamine type trend or this cycle- Mm-hmm... 49:45 then we're going to have to see or be fed more manufactured talent or people like a To- again, I'm not talking about anyone's talent here for, for lack of better word. They don't deserve the opportunity. 49:57 But we're gonna see more studio letter curated selections of a Tom Holland or a Timothée Chalamet anointed type person. Mm-hmm. And there's gonna be far less opportunities. 50:08 There's gonna be five people that are always deemed the person, the penultimate person to be the actor of a lead project, and the rest of us are just gonna be the decentralized, we all know how to get X amount of views in the world. 50:25 Uh, and we're gonna stop watching everyone else's content and solely focusing on our own, trying to amass our own, you know, brand deals for lack of a better- Dystopian... yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, 50:39 in many ways though, what you're saying is, um, the anointing of, of a star is still going to happen even if that star didn't have a social following prior. Yeah. M- m- more so. Oh yeah. Yeah. 50:55 Um- I, I, I don't think that's going away. It's just a matter of who's in power to help ensure that that person is positioned to continue. Yeah. Right? Yeah. 51:05 Like Bar- uh, making Barbie or Cruella or any of these projects that have IP- Mm-hmm... the IP is the thing that's always nine times out of 10 going to be the anchored vehicle to get the butts in seats. Yep. 51:23 The talent, if you can get them in the project- Mm-hmm... are- Amplifiers... some- More or less. Yeah. Or, or, or, or if anything, the IP is actually gonna amplify them to make them the star. Yep. Right? 51:35 Is there any one star where you're like, "Because they are acting, I, I want to see this"? Well, I mean, a Leonardo DiCaprio vehicle could be that, right? I mean, I- No, for you... imagine there's only a... 51:47 Oh, for me, I guess sure. I was trying to, I actually was trying to answer your question more to say like honestly, no. I, I, I think I'm at a point now where I'm so concept-based- Mm-hmm... or concept-driven. Yeah. 52:00 I, I definitely when I hear about a project I go, "Ooh, I like that idea," or, "I love them. I wanna see what they're doing." Yep. 52:07 But there's plenty of times where I love an actor or love a performer and I'm like, "Eh, it doesn't look great." Yeah, 'cause the concept. 52:14 I, I ask specifically because of this idea of the star, you know, I'm like, "Are people actually going because these people are leading the roles?" 52:24 Like, sure, like the idea of a star who played the character is, um, alluring but, you know, I don't know. For me, like I, I like Michael B. 52:36 and I like Timothée Chalamet, and if the concept is interesting it m- and they're leading I will want to see it more. 52:46 But I, like if the concept is bad and like the trailer's bad and they're the lead, I might just catch it like, like I haven't seen The Merc- But what are you following? But now my question is what are you following? 52:57 Because when I hear you describe that, what I'm curious about- Mm-hmm... and what that piques my interest on is are you following from a fandom perspective, and are you following in support of Michael B. 53:08 Jordan's career or Timothée Chalamet's career? 53:12 Or are you following because of their artistry and you trust them as an artist to show up and you just want to watch something that they're going to perform in because you've always found that their creative selections have been astounding? 53:25 Yeah. Because I would say to you like that's how it all started s- like the celebrity- Yeah... everyone wants to follow the person and get to know them- Yeah... uh, versus following the art, right? 53:36 It's what are you- Yeah... looking like or what are you doing off camera? It's interesting in the, those two p- specific sc- scenarios I mentioned. For Michael B. 53:44 I think it's more career, um, 'cause I remember watching Fruitvale Station and Canne and like- Mm-hmm... seeing Co- Coogler's rise. Um, not that he's a bad actor. I think he's a great actor. 53:54 For Timothée though, he seems like an amazing actor. It's like he just seems like... A- um, and there's one more actor now that I a- also think is an amazing actor. Uh, Yahya, I... His... 54:09 How to pronounce his- Yahya Abdul-Mateen. Yes. I also think he is a brilliant actor, and now I want to watch his artistry, not just track his career. Hi- he, him is actually both but, um- But Yah- I can say this- Yeah... 54:22 point blank. Yeah. Yahya has been that guy- Mm-hmm... prior to even getting anywhere near making it. Mm. And I can say that because I remember when, when he first signed with Anonymous Content. It was at Gersh- Mm... 54:34 and he was, if I'm not mistaken, Yahya was in the MFA program at Yale. Mm. And he was coming out and he had just got cast on his own by Baz Luhrmann in- Mm... the, in, in a, in a, 54:49 like a villain role and like a s- he had like a story arc. A- Mm-hmm... Baz Luhrmann's, it was a Netflix show, The Get Down. Mm. Mm. And he had, he had a, a- Or Get Low. I think it's the Get Down. 55:01 He had a, he had a- Yep... arc on that project. Mm. Oh, yeah. Super humble. Super humble. He came in, not even h- he just, he just, humble's the wrong terminology. He was, he just was. Mm-hmm. 55:16 He was, he was his own br- talk about someone who understood his, his brand and his, and was at least projected- Yeah... maturity in his artistry or in, in his ability to sit and talk and be that. He was him. 55:34 Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Uh, a couple stats and then we can wrap. 55:40 Um, uh, one recently, uh, the SAG-AFTRA, um, wrote a new media contract for verticals, uh, with minimum rates, and so we're starting to see regulation of this- Dude... of this space, uh, um- Can't fucking do it. 55:57 And, [laughs] and like I mentioned, you know, you have studios, uh, like Fox took an equity stake in Holy Water. Um, Disney's partnering with Dhar Mann. We're, we're seeing more and more of it. 56:08 Um, the last thing I'll leave you with on my end is I think, um, Jeffrey Katzenberg is looking mighty smart right now. 56:17 [laughs] Um, and, uh, I think a, um, a case in, in failure, um, and, and, and not letting failure define you because he, they raised $1.75 billion. 56:32 Like for all intents and purposes, that should have ended his career as- I, I think dude, I think dude's doing fine. I mean, have you seen that movie? Oh, yeah. You see that, you see that movie? Is it that movie? 56:42 How many- Yeah. [laughs]... point of the movie? But, but more so- Dude's doing just fine... more so to, more so to say that like, you know, he, he's, he's had successes and this was like a dark spot in his career. Mm. 56:52 Um, and even though he spent all that money, I think he's looking like the smartest person in Hollywood in retrospect, seeing the fervor around verticals. 57:01 It's just wrong place, wrong time, but he can forever say, "I predicted this," you know? Can I es-end that? Yeah. For three seconds? Mm-hmm. 57:08 In your celebration of J- Jeffrey Katzenberg, something that I would really like to echo and leave our audience with today on this show is as we speak about failure, I really wanna remind any and all of us in this room, our failures, our f- our failures don't define us unless we allow them to. 57:26 Yep. And ultimately, we should be... I'm a huge Matthew McConaughey fan. Uh, speaking about, when you talk about like Michael B. Jordan- Mm-hmm... and these people that like, like we wanna help us rise to the occasion. 57:36 I think Matthew McConaughey said something so profound that when he did his Oscar speech, when he was asked about his hero. Mm. His hero was not him. His hero, his hero was him in five years. Mm. 57:47 Ultimately, I challenge any and all of us to seek failure, and by that I really mean to say is take risk and don't fear failure. 57:57 Because ultimately, that failure that we accomplish or when, when, when accomplishing something or failing in search or pursuit of said, said, said act, that's further building your resume. 58:10 That's helping you learn from your mistakes. Mm. And I think so of- so much often in time, like younger in our careers, people don't, you're only remembered for your wins or your mistakes. Yeah. 58:24 And as you get older or as, or as at least as I get older in my career, what I realize more and more from a leadership perspective is if you're able to articulate and understand why those failures were those failures and how to properly ascend from them and apply the learnings from those failures, your resume or your CV just gets so much more, uh, you become so much more hireable. 58:52 Yeah. Or so much more, uh, what's the word? I want the person that's failed. Yeah. I don't want the person who only talks to me about their wins, and 59:03 I'm still unclear on whether or not it was them or right place, right time. Yeah. Yeah. Preach. Chris bringing it today. I love it. Um, we could go on and on about that. 59:15 Maybe, maybe the next time we chat we should, we should start with that, um, 'cause I have a lot of thoughts and I appreciate the, the vibes. But, uh, alas, I think we are at time. And, uh, uh, what a fun conversation. 59:28 Good to see you, Chris. Uh- Good to see you, B. We'll, uh, we'll catch you all, uh, next time, next week. Find us wherever you listen to podcasts, YouTube. I think we're even on TikTok. We are on TikTok. 59:42 All the things, and we'll catch you next time. Peace. Peace. [outro Jingle] Business is booming. Is your fulfillment ready for peak season? Switch to ShipStation now and handle more volume with confidence when it counts. 59:56 ShipStation connects Shopify, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and over 200 more integrations with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. 1:00:06 Everything your operation needs all in one place. Right now, qualified shippers get a real dedicated person to get you set up and switched over for free, so when peak season hits, you're ready to go. 1:00:16 Switch today at shipstation.com, code audio. [outro jingle] This show is brought to you by The Future Party and Crosstalk Studios. Produced by Chris Sawtelle, Hoya Colady, and Paul York. 1:00:28 Special shout-out to our production team, Artseli Rubalcava, Max Gulin, Shannon Klein, and Eli Tafur.
