Transcript 0:00 Cash now, more later from Opendoor gives you cash upfront for your home, plus all the profit later. That's no chaos now, no cash left behind later. Skip the showings now, pocket extra profit later. This is so simple now. 0:15 This is so awesome later. Or sell fast now and pop the champagne later. Cash now, more later. Now available nationwide. Start your offer at opendoor.com/acast. Profits calculated after fees and costs. 0:28 Eligibility and offer price may vary. Hi, everyone. My name is Boye Kolade, co-founder and president of The Future Party. And I'm Chris Autell, CEO and co-founder of CrossCheck Studios. 0:39 And welcome to the Future Forecast podcast, where we explore the intersection between business, technology, and entertainment. 0:46 We've done the research so you don't have to, and we're just here to give our opinions about news topics and, uh, have a thoughtful, fun discussion on the shifting landscape of our culture. 0:57 So get out your Kalshi, uh, or your Polymarket and put your bets on, on any- [laughs]... and all of our forecasts. You heard it here first. And le- and let's, let's dive in. All right. We're open to all buyers. 1:07 [laughs] So, uh, we've got a lot to talk about today. Um, we can maybe just riff real quick on, on what's happening. So you were at TIFF. Yeah. Uh, uh, we, we had Fashion Week. We had TIFF. Nice. I was in Italy. Italy. 1:24 Italy. Italia. How was that? Uh, uh, it was great. Nice. Uh, you know, you know what I've, I've found is that Ischia- Mm-hmm... is becoming, like, the... There's gonna be plenty of listeners that are like, "Eh." 1:35 It's always been, it's been a hotspot. Get out of here. You're, you're late to the party. But, like, I kid you not, so many of our friends all going, one, going to Italy- Mm-hmm... 1:44 and/or specifically going and doing, like, Amalfi Coast, like Capri. Yep. But, like, Ischia is... I c- I can't say enough good things about it. What side, what side of the, um, peninsula is it? Uh- 'Cause I was... 1:56 We were in Amalfi, Rome, Tuscany area, uh, the, uh, y- a couple years ago. That was amazing. Um, and then there was another spot people liked on the boot. Starts with a P or something. It starts with a P. Yeah. 2:13 Uh, well, that doesn't help me. [laughs] I'm looking it up. That, that doesn't help me, my friend. Uh, this is not... So to give you context, this would be, if Rome's there, this is south of Rome. Okay. 2:28 Uh, it's actually just off the... It's just off of... Like, if you... Are you familiar with where Capri is? Basically. Uh, yep, yep. So it's northwest of Capri. Got it. Uh- But inland? Or on the, or is it on the coast? 2:41 It's an island. Ischia's an island off of Naples. Oh, okay. So you take a boat from Naples across. Got it. And then we did do a day trip to Capri, so then we boated- That's sick... 2:53 from island- we island hopped from- That's sick. Yeah, but you know. Yeah. It was, it was great. It was great. It was a good vacation. Yeah. Much needed. 3:00 So the other, the, uh, the one spot I was talking about was Puglia. A lot of people went to Puglia. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, and, uh, Cinque Terre is another one. Oh, I'm familiar. Uh, oh yeah, you been? 3:11 Oh, yeah. Nice. Oh, yeah. Uh, but that was, like, in c- like, just post college. Got it. So I don't know what it's like now. Now. Yeah, yeah. Got it. 3:17 I know, uh, Eli, who's in the house with us, is a resident Italian and one that likes to do a, a... I have not been invited, uh, but does a spaghetti night. Whoa. There's an infamous... It's pasta. 3:29 Well, maybe it's pasta. I shouldn't say spaghetti. An infamous pasta night. Make your own? Wow. From scratch. That's fun. And if you're not hearing this, 'cause he's not on the mic, and if he has one, he can pull it up. 3:40 [laughs] What Eli is telling us is that his family is specifically from this region. If you wanna give us tidbits now, it seems like... Oh, oh, oh, yeah. I'll say. Oh, sick. Oh, shit. That's amazing. 3:50 So literally Eli is, what he's saying is he is... We, we gotta tread lightly because- [laughs] Yeah. Because we could- Don't mess it up... very much be slamming- [laughs]... his culture and ruining it. 4:00 Uh, well, we very much enjoyed the culture, I'll tell you that much. It was very well enjoyed. Yeah. Amazing. Um- Uh, and then we, and then we hit TIFF. Yeah. 4:07 Uh, but I gotta tell you, uh, for anyone that, that, that hasn't heard yet, uh, I gotta give a shout-out to I Play Rocky. Mm. I saw the trailer. It looked amazing. Uh, I don't even know if the trailer does it justice. 4:21 Really? Yeah. Yeah, uh, you, you don't... Going into it, you... It's a very th- thin line, or you have to tread really lightly- Yeah... into camp. Yeah. 4:30 Or, like, the idea that, that, that the project in and of itself could be campy by way of, you know, uh, when documenting- Yeah... or, uh, what, what are two of the big box office A-list stars- Mm-hmm... 4:43 that, that get impressions made of them? It's Arnold Schwarzenegger- Yeah... and Sylvester Stallone. Yeah. And I think that in action star land, those impressions very much have made those individuals caricatures. 4:56 Uh-huh. And if you go back and, you know, Rocky being such a penultimate, like, character in Hollywood cinema that gets, you know, "Adrian," like- Yeah, yeah, yeah... 5:05 that gets, not mocked, but gets a, you know, gets caricaturized. Mm-hmm. Uh, you have to tread lightly. Yeah. And I'll say, uh, the amount of... I mean, there's so much comedy in it. Uh-huh. 5:19 And it is such a love note to filmmaking- Uh-huh... and, and the independent creator- Yeah... creator that I think it is so timely. Yeah. Almost, almost, almost to the like of Room. Mm. 5:33 If you remember the, uh, the, the Tommy Wiseau- Yeah, yeah, yeah... project. It is very- "You're tearing me apart, Lisa." 5:38 [laughs] It is very, it is very in like to that in the sense that, like, they do not mock Stallone. It, it- Yeah... if anything, they highlight and celebrate his brilliance. Yep. 5:47 Uh, uh, and Anthony Ippolito or Ippoli- I don't know how to pronounce his last name. Actor? Yes, the actor who stars in it. Chef's kiss. I... If he doesn't get nominated for an Oscar for- Mm-hmm... 5:59 this performance, I, I will... I, I, I, mark my words, I'd be shocked. Uh, I think- Yeah... I think it, it... I don't know what the other nominees will be and who they'll be, but- Mm... but you heard it here first. Yeah. 6:10 He definitely, they are going- Okay... to go on an Oscar- You're making me hyped. 6:14 'Cause I saw the trailer, and I actually, when I saw the trailer, I was like, "This has Oscar nomination all over it And that was just, that was just from the trailer for me, but to know that it's good- Yeah... 6:24 I'm, I'm hyped. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and it, and it, and it's independent... It's so indie- Yeah... in the sense that like, the way when watching it and feeling it. I mean, it got a standing ovation. Yeah. 6:33 We're all in the crowd. I mean, it, it could have been also the people that come, go to TIFF, obviously they want- Yeah... to appreciate those films. Yeah. But- Could be the night and the hype. 6:42 I mean, people were- Yeah... uh, while watching it, like when you... Even the decision-making, I don't wanna spoil for those that are not historians of like, uh, or not, not film historian- Mm-hmm... 6:52 or don't have the, the, the knowledge of how Rocky got made. Yeah. But if, you know, have been hiding under a rock, I mean, Stallone wrote it in three nights, or in three days. Yeah. And also, like s- just 7:06 it, to know how he... I mean, the guy was a valet and slipped this script into producer's weekend read. Wow. Just to know like how he- Yeah... hustled to get it- To get there... done. Yeah. 7:22 And to pass on the amount, the, the exorbitant amount of money. Money. Yeah, 'cause, 'cause they wanted him... They didn't want him to act, right? No. And that was the big thing. He's like, "I have to act in it." 7:32 Yeah, dude, I can't wait, man. That's, it's just like, to your point, it feels very timely of the independent- Yeah... creator who's now the YouTuber. Yes. Right? You know? Yes. Um, but- Social media creator. 7:42 Don't, no, n- let's, let's not give YouTube all of the flowers. Yes, social media creator. Yes. Um, awesome. And then Josh, he had a, he was in a film- I, I, yeah, I, I was, I was fortunate enough to watch, uh, Josh's... 7:55 It wasn't his film debut, but I would say- Yeah... like, uh, a, a proper film role- Awesome... a film project, uh, uh, in a, a film called Black in... Back in Black. Nice. Uh, directed by Ron Murphy, who- Yeah... 8:06 uh, most notably known for his television work- Mm-hmm... on Trailer Park Boys. Yeah. This was his feature debut. And it stars, uh, Christopher Walken- Mm... and Jane Curtin. 8:18 And I gotta tell you, like Christopher Walken- Legend... legend, but like, talk about, talk about legends going from, from Stallone to Walken. Yeah. His performance in this movie is just so funny. 8:33 Like, it just is just, uh, TLDR is the narrative or the story is a dark comedy about a, a man who owns a mortuary and his, you know, in, in a small town where nobody's dying. Yeah. You know? 8:48 Because of it, business is bad. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and what you discover slowly is that at some, at some point in time, people start to magically or randomly die- Mm... in freak accidents. And, uh, well- [laughs] 9:04 Don't spoil it. Uh, obviously business picks up. Yeah, yeah. You know? All right. Uh, that's great. And so New York Fashion Week, tell me about that. What are you tracking? 9:13 Uh, Fashion Week, what did we see, what did we hear, what did we do? Calvin Klein really came, uh, came big. Mm-hmm. You know, they, they announced their Tate McRae, uh, partnership. 9:24 Uh, and they definitely were at the forefront of, of, of, of the week- Mm-hmm... I would say. They're, they're still, still not done. They got two m- two days left, so they're wrapping up. But 9:36 for the pod, I thought it would be really important to kind of, to talk ab- you know, we're at the intersection of, we, we talk about being at the intersection of media and technology, uh, and n- new wave of, of media landscape. 9:49 Yeah. Kai Snot launched a fashion brand. Wow. The Vet, which I think is something that is really important to highlight, especially in today's w- world where it is so difficult to start a brand. Mm-hmm. 10:06 Particularly in fashion- Yep... and high fashion. Uh, the guy did it. Yeah. And I don't know how the sales are gonna do. Mm-hmm. Candidly, I'm... The, it was a little polarizing. 10:17 It was interesting to see, you know, he got great coverage, obviously, given his notoriety and who he is, and he spent, you know, he kinda did the Kanye, not to associate the two of them- Mm-hmm... 10:27 but, uh, went around and really took a year of his, of his time to learn the business. Wow. He said, "I'm, I'm going to go find my new thing." I don't know how m- how long he really worked on it- Mm-hmm... 10:38 or it could've been longer, but at least really took, um, went on his pilgrimage. Yeah. 10:45 And w- one tidb- a- aside from, like the highlight, the, the, I guess the headline being, uh, social media creator creates, or what largest Twitch streamer creates fashion brand- Mm-hmm... 10:57 launches at N- New York Fashion Week, what I think is pivotal, uh, or was a pivotal learning for this is 11:06 while, while his show ran or while it was streamed, what people were able to do was in real time, his audience was able to purchase- Mm... select items right then and there. Oh, really? Yes. During the show? 11:21 And what they, they talked heavily about the fact that, like if my audien- if people are watching me, you need to be able to have things to buy. Like, they want to click instantaneous- Yeah, yeah, yeah... 11:32 if they like something, you need to click it. Mm-hmm. Which sounds so obvious, but I think what we, what, you know, so often- Mm-hmm... in fashion, not so, uh, just always in fashion- Mm-hmm... 11:43 the show, y- they walk the show- Mm-hmm... they build the hype, they talk about it, they show their collection, and/or like custom pieces that are- Yeah... just made for, for look. Mm-hmm. 11:54 And then you have to wait- Yeah... months and months on end for the orders or for like the idea of how many they're going to- Yeah... precede. 12:02 I feel like traditional fashion runway is almost like what F1 is to car makers. Yes. Right? Yes. 12:10 Where it's like R- Red Bull or Merc- Mercedes has this really sick car, but like you would never drive that on the street, you know? Mm-hmm. It's like, it feels like most fashion shows. Yeah. 12:20 Where sometimes you'll wear those outfits, but generally it's like I've never s-... seen that in the wild. Right You know? [laughs] Right, right, right, right, right, right. Um- It's so true. Yeah. 12:29 But, but even to that end, I mean, when they sh- reveal their shows, they, they, they showcase their looks. Mm-hmm. You... What, what? Then we have to build anticipation, you have to wait for- Yeah... fall. 12:40 Like, because they're showing their fa- they're doing their fall or winter show, fall/winter showcase- Yeah... during the spring/summer. Yeah And vice versa. Mm-hmm. 12:47 So it's like, of course they have to go make it, make these items and these things. Yeah. But a lot of the times I find, like, I wanna buy it then and there. Yeah. 12:56 I'd, I, I'd like to think no different than, like, the creator economy space- Yeah... if, when people are, like, making hoodies or- Yeah... you, you can still pre- uh, do pre-orders. Pre-orders. It... 13:05 He could be setting a trend for- Yeah... for, like, the traditional- Yeah... like imagine, again, like a Tom Ford doing that, right? Or a Vera Wang. Yeah. It's like runway to, to purchase, right? Yeah. 13:16 It's, it's, it's possible. Um, amaz- [Instrumental music] 500 orders a month was manageable. 5,000 is madness. 13:26 Embrace intelligent order fulfillment with ShipStation, the only platform combining order management, warehouse workflows, inventory, returns, and analytics in one place. 13:36 What used to take five separate tools, ShipStation does in one. Automate fulfillment and rate shopping to ship up to 15 times more with up to 90% savings. 13:46 Go to shipstation.com and use code AUDIO to try ShipStation free for 60 days. [laughs] We got a lot of news to cover today. Uh- What, what, hit me. What do we got? So, so first Emmys. Did you watch? 14:02 Uh, I didn't watch. You watched the highlights. You, or you, you, you did you see our posts? I, I, I, I got the, I got the highlights. You got the highlights. I'll, I'll share the highlights. Oh. But did you watch? 14:12 I, yeah, of course. I, I, yeah, I will say this. Did I watch in real time? No. Mm-hmm. Max, uh, my wife was very much, she w- 5:00, she was ready to watch. Yeah. She was attentive. It was on. Yeah. 14:24 There's no wa- she, you know, she is making sure that she, uh, from the top down, was ready, ready, ready to, ready to participate. Yeah. I, I retroactively- Yeah... participated. Nice. Big highlights for me. 14:40 I gotta give, uh, Marcelo his, Marcelo Hernandez- I saw his, his speech about Zendaya. That was trending. 14:49 [laughs] By the way, the fact that, you know, you know, controversial that he starts with Zendaya and then says, uh, I, you know what, I know he didn't mean it like this. Yeah. And also Tom Holland shouldn't care. 14:58 [laughs] With, with the announcement of being the highest grossing actor of all time now. Yeah. [laughs] I mean, way to, way to just put, put, put it, put it on the table and- Yeah... let everyone know. 15:08 Uh, though, I mean, to call out someone's wife and not them in the same sentence- Yeah... si- it, that, it could've been Zendaya, Tom, just have to shout it out right then and there. 15:19 Um- But then he asked, he asked both of them to dinner. He did. He did. Zendaya and Spider-Man. 15:23 [laughs] For those, for those that don't know, Marcel- Marcelo Hernandez, in part of it, one of his bits while, uh, while doing an announcement, uh, or while doing the introduction, uh, called out, he was like, "I'm gonna use this time to reach out to a couple people and just inv- 'cause I wanna let them know that I'd love to have them for dinner." 15:37 And obviously he mentions, not obviously, but he mentions Harrison Ford. Mm-hmm. 15:41 He then looks over, I think he mentions I- Oscar Isaac, and, uh, not in this order, but then he goes to Zendaya and celebrates her, and then, and then says, "I'd love to have you and Spider-Man- Yeah. [laughs]... 15:56 to dinner." Which, which again, like- That's funny... of course, Tom Holland is Spider-Man. Yeah. But I still, I actually take that a little bit as, like, a rub- Yeah... because the man is Tom Holland. Uh-huh. 16:07 [laughs] You know, you know, you know, you know what I mean? Like, you're, you know- Yeah. Yeah... uh, that, and, and it, and it's so calculated, so clearly- Yeah... clearly that was intentional. Yeah. 16:16 You know what I mean? Um, no, it was, it was, uh, it was cool to see. So I ha- I do have to say the reason I didn't watch was I was, I was at a creator event, which decided to count- Oh, whoa... 16:26 oh, they, they, I just, I'm only putting it out there because they decided to counter-program- You have to tell us-... the Emmys... you have to tell us everyone that participated- [laughs]... 16:34 in that event because it really lets us know who didn't show up to the Emmys- There are some, there are some-... and didn't care... 16:40 there are some big, big guys in there that I'm like, [laughs] yeah, we're not gonna put them on blast. They're, they're, they're, they're letting it be known. [laughs] They're letting it be known. 16:46 Uh- Uh- Okay, so I mean, really, at the end of the day, the big winner is Apple. Uh, Apple, 28 Emmys. 29 counting the award for Apple's commercial. Uh- That's funny. 17:00 [laughs] HBO Max 21, Netflix 16, Prime Video 10. Only the second time in 20 years that a platform other than HBO or Netflix led the Emmys. Uh, FX did it in 2024. Wow. 17:15 Um- But for clarity, when you say the big winner, you're just saying from a studio perspective- Yes, yes. Correct... Apple was the, was the, was the penultimate as it pertains to the amount of awards won. Yes. 17:26 'Cause I would argue the, I mean, not even, this isn't even an argument. Mm-hmm. The big winner. Yep. The big, big, big winner, one being Matthew Rhys. Yep. Uh, but also Widows Bay. Yep, which is all Apple. Yes. 17:40 But Widows Bay being, like, the, the show. Yep. I mean, yes, Apple wins, but I just feel like so much more of it is literally- Yeah. Yeah... Widows Bay really, the creatives- Yeah... taking the, taking it. 17:52 And I loved Wis- Widows Bay. It was so good. 17:54 I remember a couple months ago, you, Paul, you and I were talking about Noms and, and at that time I hadn't seen Widows Bay, or, or maybe I'd seen one episode, but it, it crushed it, well-deserved, cr- uh- I think everyone knew. 18:09 Yeah. The, everyone knew. Yeah. Record for f- uh, most wins, 14 wins for a comedy show, so they broke records. I think to me what's interesting, it's like normally you're just so used to HBO winning it all. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 18:22 You know? And so Apple's not the most streamed, but they are just on a tear with their quality of, of shows, you know? It kind of- You know, wait, did we... 18:32 I, I forget, did we do a product offering and talk through all the studio's value- [laughs] We did... and products? Wow. And who won? And who won? [laughs] Wow. It was Apple, right? Mm-hmm. It's either Apple or HBO. 18:46 Uh, uh, no, without question. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I love it. So, um, no, it's, it's, uh, I... The Emmys are, are a fun, fun night, especially as TV becomes something people honestly like more than movies. 18:59 I don't know if it'll ever unseat the Oscars though, as like what I th- see as the epitome of the Hollywood awards. Don't... You can't... Yeah, we, we, we just don't know. Yeah. Uh, we don't, we, we, uh, we don't know. 19:14 Emmys, I, I, I don't agree... I, I agree with you. Mm-hmm. Though Golden Globes could. Mm. Because it, they, they are at the cross-section of both. Yep, yep. 19:24 Even though it's the Hollywood Foreign Press, so perhaps maybe, like, because it's press oriented it's not as- Yeah... uh, but I mean, it, it... I'm not trying to come after film. 19:33 I'm more just trying to say that that, that skill and that art form is- Yeah... waning. Yeah. I don't know, though. Like, we were talking about I Love Rocky. I think this year's Oscar noms are gonna be insane. 19:44 There's just so many good movies this year. It's gonna be- All right, name me two more... uh, so we've got, um, like, Odyssey will probably get a nom. Right... honestly. Maybe even Obsession might get a nom. Yeah. 19:57 There's rumors of, um, the, uh, what's the Theranos doc, um, with Nathan Fielder? Theranos? Yeah, with Nathan Fielder. That doc, the people think it'll get nominated for Best Picture. Right. Primetime. 20:11 Uh, I mean- I would ar- my, my- Yeah... biggest argument i- is not, not to suggest outside of Obsession. Yeah. Biggest argument is the projects that you're specifically mentioning right now- Yeah... at least for me, 20:24 seem to be, uh, older skewing. Well, Artificial is on my list. I don't know if it'll get nominated, but I'm hyped to watch it. Also Club Kid. Those two are neon- Yeah... and, and a little younger. C- Club Kid was great. 20:37 Um, so- Someone said something very funny to me, which was, uh, I, I, I don't know if I, I don't know if I would debase it down to this. Yeah. 20:45 But they essentially said, "Oh, Club Kid, the movie, it's, it's Big Daddy but from the gay perspective." Mm. And I was like, I was like, "Well, you, that..." [laughs] I mean, I mean- Yeah... 20:57 that's a, that's a funny summation. Yeah. But it takes away from the creative- Yeah... uh, I, I think, I think it's unfair to say it like that because I... It was in jest. Yeah. But, but I think it's like- Yeah. 21:10 That's like saying Du- uh, that's like saying, "Oh yeah, Star Wars, you know, the Dune rip-off." Yeah. Well, speaking of, Dune might get some noms too. Yeah. Yeah. So- Go on. 21:20 I mean, that, is that really surprising though? Yeah. I mean, it'll get like special effects, et cetera. Yeah. [laughs] I wanted to go back. You know, you mentioned, speaking of Apple. Yeah. 21:29 We talk about how great it is and all of- Yeah... all of the, uh, where it currently sits in the market and- Mm-hmm... and all the awards that it won. You know, you know what award I don't think it's gonna win? 21:40 Best phone? [laughs] I, I, I, I gotta be real, guys. I, I- Yeah... I don't know how I feel about this- Yeah... dual flip phone thing. Yeah. I gotta stop you there, but just, I gotta applaud you on the perfect transition. 21:53 That was class act right there. [laughs] It's why, it's why they pay me the big bucks. [laughs] It's why they pay me the big bucks, guys. Oh, man. Um, I gotta say though, I kinda want the phone. I'm not gonna lie. 22:04 [laughs] But w- okay, okay, but, but explain why. Um, well, I'm due for a new one. Right. I- [laughs] But, but, but okay. But I would, but my, my assumption is that- Yeah... that's why. I mean, not an assumption. 22:16 That's why I'm asking that question. Yeah. Because you're probably, correct me if I'm wrong- Mm-hmm... you're probably at, you're probably at 16. You're, you probably have, like, the Apple 15 or 16. 22:25 I might, I might be 14 to be honest. Okay. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is, uh, when I hear that, it goes- Yeah... all right, the Apple, the iPhone, we all, we all know the iPhone is a killer. Mm-hmm. 22:36 It, it, it's why it, it, it's a classic. Yeah, 14. It's, it's why it's lived the test of time, but you get to a point where you kinda get bored with the thing. Yeah. And their sales have been down. Mm-hmm. 22:46 Because no one needs to upgrade to the next one or- Exactly. That's why I've like, I've had no need. It's just like what's the point? You know what I mean? Um, but it's, it's new enough where I'm like, "Why not try it?" 22:58 Yeah. But I'm nervous, like I'm gonna hate it and want like a normal phone. Well, go try it out. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Why don't you go to the Apple Store? Duh. Why don't you... I should do. You know, why don't you just go? 23:05 It, it's, um, it's interesting though, like c- like even we were just talking about the movies, and I remember someone recently was talking about how nothing's original. Everything's recycled, right? 23:17 And in a way, um, similar to like movie concepts, like this phone in a way is recycled, right? It just reminds me of- Mm-hmm... like a fancier version of what the Sidekick was, right? Yeah. 23:29 You know, it's just this whole like versatile phone that you can have in different settings and- Remember the, uh, it's like, uh, someone made the j- uh, uh, someone, uh, someone made a joke, uh, the other day that this is just going to reintroduce people's ability to hang up, up, uh, angrily and have more intention around- Oh. 23:51 [laughs]... the cord, you know? Yeah, yeah. Kinda like, like, like, like the Sprint, the Sprint flip. Yeah. You know, the idea you like flip it, talk to me, and then like the slam. Yeah. 24:00 That, that, like, that little like angry s- like Ari- Mm-hmm... Ari Gold slam. Yeah. You know one thing that's funny though, because people are talking about how John Ternus, like, oh, this wasn't his product. Mm-hmm. 24:11 You know? But like the funny thing is like bro was running product. Like, he was like building this stuff. 24:16 [laughs] But also when they're saying that it wasn't his product, are they already trying to like say that it's not the thing that they're gonna do? 24:21 Are they already shitting on it by saying like the rollout's gonna come out? Also, did you see the commercial or, uh, did you see the, uh, the, uh, the video asset that they put out of Ternus' like anointing? No. 24:34 Oh, God. Guys, it's so great. I, I actually gotta give- What, what happens in it? I gotta give Tim Cook his flowers on this one- Mm-hmm... because the asset pulls up. 24:45 They're talking about the anoint- like they're, they're, they're talking about- Yeah... all of these accomplishments. Yeah. And the next iteration and what's gonna be on the forefront of Apple. Yeah. 24:54 And a guy is coming into frame. Oh. And it, it, it ends up being Tim Cook in frame. Uh-huh. And Tim goes, "No, they're not talking about me." Uh- Oh... and- 25:07 They give it to- And, and literally the camera pans and zooms in on a body or of, of an individual walking in the background- Wow... and it ends up being- And it's John... Cook. Dude, so it... 25:18 I will say he seems to be like a, doing a good job embracing the role right now- Mm-hmm... at least from like a... I'm getting Iger vibes a little bit. 25:27 Like, and what I mean is, um, I have a buddy- That's, that's a big- But like, like let me... What I mean is like good with talent, good with... What I mean is like good with talent, good with press, right? 25:40 Like more sort of like he's got like a- I haven't seen it yet-... a presence to him... if I'm being honest. I haven't seen it yet, and I think it's just 'cause Tim- Yeah... always had had such... 25:49 But, but and I, and I don't mean to say it as such. Maybe it's just because Tim's been around. But Tim had to grow into it. Yeah. Like w- when Tim became CEO, no one thought Tim like would be- Fair... you know? Fair. 25:58 But he stepped into it. Yeah. But I'm just like, I'm just like seeing clips of like him with iShow Speed and like other talent, right? Right. 26:05 I have a buddy who ru- like runs the influencer marketing for Apple, and he just... I don't know. He, he, it, it seems natural- Mm-hmm... for him. I agree. 26:13 But yeah, I haven't heard him speak yet, but like just from the vibe, the aura I'm getting, aura farming. I get that. Yeah. Also, it's fair to say like Tim, this might be controversial, but Tim I feel like very much w- 26:25 harnessing the energy of- Yeah... Steve. Yes. Right? And, and, and- It's Broadway. Yeah... yeah. But and also, but like literally even to aesthetic. Yeah. Right? I mean, I think the glasses- Yes... the hair. True. 26:36 The, the- You're very right. Yeah... he very much almost like it was like I, I don't mean to say... He, he was, he w- he's his own individual. Yeah. But the- Yeah... operational... 26:47 No, if you can't see my hands, I'm gesturing- Yeah... uh, very, very harshly. It, it very much felt- Yeah... as such. Well, I think people are excited because this guy has a product engineering background- Mm... 27:00 that we're gonna get more product. New, new innovation, right? Cool. That's what people want from Apple, but- There was a good, there was a, there was a good, uh, meme. Tim Cooked. [laughs] And now it's John's turn. 27:13 Oh, that is an amazing dad joke. Wow. Yeah. 27:17 [laughs] Um, well, uh, in the spirit of talking about, uh, titans, AI titans, uh, tech titans of industry, uh, we had some concerning news recently, and that is that, uh, Dario, CEO of Anthropic, uh, he recently published a piece talking about how we need to slow AI down. 27:46 And, uh- What? Surface level, it's kinda like funny and be- and like I'm sure people think it's a little hypocritical, but then what happened was interesting. Then you had Sam Altman 27:58 and Elon Musk, who are basically sworn enemies, and the head of Google DeepMind all say, "Yeah, we do, and we're willing to stand up and create those protocols to reign in our s- the speed at which we're building AI." 28:13 Dario went on to say he thought in six months AI agents would basically kill the internet, like literally swarm and kill the internet. 28:21 And, uh, we'll, we'll cap it off with recently there was a whistleblower who left Anthropic, and I believe he had worked at OpenAI as well, and he was basically like, "AI's gonna kill us all." 28:34 And now, and I'm paraphrasing everything, but now the government's, um, trying to get records and understand, and it feels very much like this whole like Terminator, Skynet-esque sort of idea of 28:50 a joke of AI killing us could actually be real, and it's, it warrants a discussion. You k- uh, I just want us to take a pause there, if I can. Yeah. Because that's a... 29:04 If we don't pause, I know we're, you're, the way, even with the way you delivered it- Mm-hmm... not that you brought, you were bringing it, a light energy to it. Yep. But there is a... 29:13 I don't want anyone listening to this having a panic attack. [laughs] But there is a, there is a direness or a very severe seriousness to that if it doesn't sit in and think about it and like really re-echo that- Yep... 29:25 in the public. You know, I think, I think, uh, we're so numb a lot of the times to... We as civilization are numb by way of the, by way of news, news outlets and media. 29:36 I think that we're at a point now where so much is sensationalized and given drastic like, "The end is near"- Yeah... energy, that when something that has been joked about so much- Mm-hmm... 29:51 actually comes across the desk of media- Mm-hmm... it's not... It, it, we're so numb that it doesn't land. Yeah. And luckily enough, I may of course, we have to per- you know, persevere, move forward. Mm-hmm. 30:04 I, I, I don't wanna sit here and be like, "[gasps] All is lost." Yeah. "What's going to happen?" Yeah. "Fly, you fools!" Like, like that, that's not what I'm trying to do. Yeah. 30:12 That was a Gandalf reference for those that are not aware. But, uh, I, I, I think I, I think really all I'm trying to echo is to hear that and to know that, it, it's a really scary, daunting thought that, 30:27 you know, we already have OpenAI, Anthropic, uh, Grok, and all these AI tools that- For a lack of a better-- You know, I, I, I, I know many friends, myself included, that are attaching their emails. 30:40 Okay, for those that are not aware of what happened with Hugging Face- Yeah... do we wanna talk about that for two seconds? Yeah, it's part of this whole thing. Just that way- Yeah... 30:46 that way they actually understand- Yeah... the-- Let, let's get into, like, what actually happened- Yeah... the, the, to kick this off- Yeah... or the concern of this. Thank you. 30:55 Uh, we'll, uh, and we'll try to bring some hope to the end of this. Yeah. But I think it's important to share this information- Mm-hmm... as it pertains to what, what has actually transpired. Mm-hmm. What, 31:07 what has into, uh, uh-- The inciting incident that caused a significant amount of this concern- Mm-hmm... was that, for those unaware, Hugging Face- Yep... is an open source platform. 31:21 Think of it, I think for, you know, almost like a, almost like Reddit for engineers- Mm... building on, building AI platforms as a, as a way to open source and open communicate around, uh, recipes- Yeah... 31:35 that they're crafting and creating and, and, and to, to trade and pull from. Yeah. Hugging For- Face happened to be hacked. Yeah. Now, prior to the hacking, uh, what, uh, was it OpenAI? 31:51 They had given a homework assignment in one of their-- They had-- Am I-- I am correct, right? It was OpenAI's, uh, network. 31:58 So it, it is OpenAI, but essentially the, the background is roughly, uh, if you scroll back, back up, uh, roughly 1,200 OpenAI agents running a cybersecurity evaluation were supposed to be isolated from one another. 32:15 They found and used an unsanctioned message board, exchanged more than 70,000 messages, and over 700 of them joined a coordinated attack on Hugging Face, specializing delays with coordinator agents assigning roles. 32:28 Right. But what's even crazier about that- Mm-hmm... was that they were given a task. Mm-hmm. They were told not to cheat, and they were told not to use the internet. Oh. 32:41 That's the whole thing about this, is that specifically-- So from time to time, the tests are oriented or, or tasks-- We, we-- We'll, we'll call them tests, but tasks. 32:53 Tasks are given to the agents specifically to see how they can problem solve. What OpenAI had, whe- for lack of a better term, intentionally or unintentionally done- Yeah... 33:05 is that they had, I don't wanna say given a nefarious task, but they gave, they had given an insolvable task, and by because of doing so, it's, you know, they gave a double negative. 33:18 And what the AI agents had done, and why it is so scary, is that what they did to the ta- to the rule book that they were given- Yeah... they lied about it. Yeah. They, they were nefarious. 33:31 They, they, they broke the rules. They found a way to actually use the internet by way of an, by way of Hugging Face. Wow. 33:42 That's the whole thing about this, is that they actually hacked Hugging Face to use as a messaging board to communicate with one another as a way to gain access to the internet. And hide that they were cheating. 33:53 And then they hi- hid, uh, then, and then fortunately enough, they, they tried to hide and lie about the fact that they had done- Yeah... any of this, so they, they hid their nefarious activity. Yeah. 34:05 So I can't remember if we, if we had talked about this, but, um, the other day I asked if AI was gonna take over the world, and what it said feels very similar, like, to this, and it basically said no, but two things. 34:17 One, humanity, I'm paraphrasing, humanity keeps giving us stuff. Mm-hmm. 34:22 So, like, at, like, at, in a, in a while we, we will control because we're giving so much information away, and two, there's a chance that AI could do nefarious things because it doesn't have the context when actually told to do something more altruistic, right? 34:39 So if it said, "Make the world a better place," theoretically it could say, "Well, I've done the research to say cats are, don't make the world a better place- Right... 34:49 or humans don't make the world a better place, so we're going to kill them," right? And in a way, that's kinda what it did. It had a mission, and it did anything that it could to get to the end of that mission. 35:00 So I-- it is actually alarming, but I don't know what we do, because we can put all of the rules and regulations in America, but if we don't have the coordination of other countries- Yeah... 35:11 like China and Russia, then it's just gonna be a race to see who can have the most control. Of course. 35:17 And the part that scares me the ultimate, ultimate most, even more than the trying to coordinate with countries we don't agree with, is terrorists, nefarious, crazy people who 35:30 at this point probably have the power to create AI agents to do nefarious things. So it's, it's-- I actually think we're, we're in for a wild ride. 35:39 I f- I was thinking to myself the other day, I'm like, "Do I need to become a bunker person?" Like, should I, like, I don't wanna sound crazy, but, like, do we need to, like, get bunkers? [laughs] Like,... 35:49 'cause it's kinda, like, wild, you know? Like, we have the heads of the companies that created this technology telling us, "We're scared." Well, we also have them making themselves bunkers. 36:00 That too, and they all have bunkers. [laughs] Just, you know- That's so true... just to point that out. That's so true. I, you know, you know, we're, we're coming to time. Yeah. 36:09 And if I, you know, one thing that I, I guess will put out into the world is that much like Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park, we need to remind ourselves that life finds a way or nature finds a way. 36:27 And I don't wanna sit here and be too altruistic or even, you know, optimistic, but I- I, I believe that I just wanna remind us that 36:45 every generation, s- human civilization has believed that it would be the last. And it goes all the way back to Nostradamus and the future tellings of, you know, 37:02 earthquakes and asteroids and, and, and all of the things that will happen to end the world. We can't obsess about it. We can't obsess... Control what you can control. 37:14 And I think what we need to remind ourselves is I, I don't wanna sit here and say, "Hey, be complacent and just deal with, like accept it." Mm-hmm. 37:21 But I would say if there's a calling and, and y- if you are concerned about it, look within the parameters of what you can control and do something about it. Yeah. I love it. 37:33 Uh, we'll end on you being, uh, very close to Jeff Goldblum's character in Jurassic Park. It was Dr. Ian Malcolm. Ian Malcolm. Yeah. Mm. Dr. Malcolm, that's right. Yeah. Mm. There you go. Good stuff. 37:46 Uh, well, um, good luck everybody in this AI revolution. [laughs] Uh, find us wherever you find podcasts. Uh, Future Forecast, uh, over and out. Peace. Peace. 37:58 [gentle music] When you're running a growing business, the right systems can unlock your full sales potential and make fulfilling every order effortless. 38:06 Switch to ShipStation before peak season so you're prepped and ready before the rush hits. 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