Transcript 0:00 Cash Now, More Later from Opendoor gives you cash upfront for your home, plus all the profit later. That's no chaos now, no cash left behind later. Skip the showings now, pocket extra profit later. This is so simple now. 0:15 This is so awesome later. Or sell fast now and pop the champagne later. Cash Now, More Later, now available nationwide. Start your offer at opendoor.com/acast. Profits calculated after fees and costs. 0:28 Eligibility and offer price may vary. Hi, everyone. My name is Boakye Kolade. And I'm Chris Sottile. 0:36 And welcome to the Future Forecast, a podcast where we explore the intersection between business, technology, and entertainment. Today, we're talking about a bunch of things. 0:45 Uh, AI is generating hit TV shows, the music industry is manufacturing virality with fake fan armies, and young men are now optimizing their own faces for the algorithm. 0:57 Today's episodes, they're about what happens when everything, content, culture, and now the human body, get treated like a product to be optimized. 1:06 [static] Let's start with, uh, this phenomena, let's call it, that is Fruit Love Island. 1:16 It's this AI show that's racked up m- tens of millions of views, and then at its peak as people were talking about it, basically gets taken down from TikTok. And, uh- Oh, is that, is that true? Yeah. 1:31 I, or, I, yeah, it's gotten taken down. Or at least a bunch of episodes. Because of copyright? They say it's because of, like, AI, like, breaking AI, like, botting. Like, which is funny- Mm... 1:42 'cause that's what we're, what we're gonna be talking about later, but I kinda feel like it's probably copyright. I have a feeling the Love Island people were like, "What's going on? We gotta, we gotta stop this." 1:52 Peacock's like, "Just not happening." Yeah. That, that's, that's my, my feeling about it, but have you- You can't put fruit in front of- [laughs] Love Island... and get an Island. Yeah. 2:06 Or c- or could you imagine, like, putting fruit in front of any sort of major show, right? Does... Like, Fruit Yellowstone. Like, Fu- like, Fruit whatever. Fruit Bachelorette. 2:20 It's pro- I wouldn't be surprised if it does keep going that someone's gonna step in and be like, "This is copyright infring- infringement." Anyways, have you seen the clips? All, all, all I can think about is eating 2:33 fruit by the foot. Have you, have you seen the clips? Unreal. Have you seen- No. Okay. We should, we should watch one here, uh, and, and see what all the rage is about. 2:44 I feel like you're trying to rage bait me right now. [laughs] You're... Are you seeing the views? Are you- Are you seeing how many views this... It's huge. Can we p- can we play a clip? Why does it make you angry? 2:57 Just because Sally just let me know how many views this had. It actually doesn't make me angry at all. It's entertainment. Yeah. I can't hear the audio. I, I actually, I take... Yeah, it says... 3:07 I take no qualm with any of this. Yeah. It's essentially Love Island, but with AI-generated fruit characters. Example, Rapunzo the grape, or ban- [laughs] Or, or ban- bananito the banana. 3:20 I can't believe we're talking about this. [laughs] Um, I mean, it's a thing, you know? Uh, the show, it, it debuted on TikTok under an anonymous account called aicinema021, 3:35 and it's averaged 10 million views across 21 episodes. So this is like- Solely on TikTok? Uh, yeah. I, I, I looked on IG. I didn't see an official account on IG, so I'm assuming solely on TikTok. 3:46 I'm sure it's only a matter of time. Uh, but yeah, I think, I think it's, it's really interesting in a world where AI is... 3:57 More people are definitely warming up to it, but I would, I would say, and I wonder if you agree, most people still feel that AI's not quite, like, narrative. 4:06 Like, it can't really, like, captivate you for several minutes in the same way y- the manual, traditional process of creating content does. 4:16 Whereas I feel like Fruit Love Island is maybe turning that on top of its head, where you have fully AI-generated shows that are captivating people's attention and, and what does that mean for the future of, of AI content? 4:33 When I hear you say that, there's a couple things that come to mind. One, which is, you know they say don't talk about politics at dinner? AI is definitely one of those topics that I feel like is exactly that. 4:48 Because it's de- all, all dependent on who you talk to. If it's a traditionalist, it's dire. End of the world. "Oh my God, they're replacing our jobs. They're taking our jobs. It's all over. Art is dead." I can't do it. 5:03 There is obviously people in the middle that ride the fine line of this is one part innovation, one part a sad realizat- reality of the world we live in. But at the end of the day, I mean, only time will tell. Yeah. 5:22 I, I, I get that too. You know, there's, there's people that, that embrace it and then people that don't. I- I'm very curious about what that dynamic is going to be with the entertainment industry, right? 5:35 So I see in the corporate setting people who are embracing AI 10X-ing their output. They're, they're, they, they crush it when it comes to the example of a great employee in my opinion. 5:48 Now when we think about film and television, is that what the studios are gonna start to think, right? Is this an AI-optimized production? 5:56 Is the, is this going to be helpful or do we, do we know they're going to crush it? 6:00 Or is it going to be kind of like, remember that whole thing with, like, film and, and using digital and some directors to this day still embrace film and that's their style. They still crush it. Yeah. 6:14 You know, a- and, and maybe there's just a world where you have bonafide AI... directors on a Chris Nolan type level that that's just their thing, and that's how it, how it works. And yeah, I don't know. 6:28 Well, what was the argument between practical and CGI? I have to imagine it was relatively not the same size of scope, or not scope, the same affect. Yeah. 6:43 Because there was still room for both people to perform their jobs. That's what it was. Yeah. What people are most concerned about is the mass layoffs that could ensue, or that I think everyone is saying will ensue. 6:57 I was debating with an artist, uh, this weekend, specifically around the idea that this does give power back to the artist. And the concerns, it was, it was a lot of hullabaloo of like, "No, it's not gonna happen. 7:10 It's not true." But I think that's because people lean so heavily on this idea that the establishment should be what is supplying the backdrop. Studios, they're like the bank. It's an institution. Yep. You show up, 7:28 just like the government. You show up, you're told what to do. Uh, they make movies every single day, they make TV every single day. There's a marketing team, and it's all turnkey. You kind of fall into their flywheel. 7:42 If they, uh, if, if you're doing a piece of IP, you can be a brand new director, a f- a second time filmmaker. You show up and they'll help you succeed. A lot of the times that does and does not happen. We've seen that. 7:59 But where I'm going with it is when the power comes back to you, the artist, there's a lot more ownership, but there's also the onus is literally on you to create, ideate, strategize, 8:17 and ensure that all aspects of the art form are held up. And I think that the new normal is that we kind of like, we're all gonna be our own little pods pushing out- Yeah... our content and having to be in control of it. 8:34 Yeah. You get rid of the bank, or the threshold of, of what it costs is so low that there's- Yeah... there's gonna be new banks that pop up that can handle the cost, right? And distribution is really social, so 8:52 you know, yeah, it's, it's a, it's definitely a whole different paradigm. 8:56 So- I'm getting hit so hard, this is a conversation and a topic for another day, but I don't know if you're getting hit with all of the Claude ads- Yeah... specifically around how to be a marketer- Yeah... 9:08 or how to use Claude to specifically build out your social strategy on Instagram and TikTok. I've seen it, tons. When I see that, 9:20 it creates this, they're doing a really great job of making you feel like you're not doing enough, you're not showing up, and that you need Claude to stay ahead of the game to literally do this. Yeah. Yeah. 9:37 No, it's, uh, but that's the reality, you know? And, and I don't know, so I just kind of bring it back to Fruit Love Island. 9:45 I just am seeing that the, the platform TikTok deleted the, deleted it for unlabeled AI content. Yeah. So that was their reasoning. But what's interesting is it had already run for 21 episodes. So- Oh, really? 10:01 So yeah, is it content moderation fault, failure, or is it proof that, you know, what I was saying, maybe because it just got a ton of buzz, people are saying, "Hey, why is this..." You know? 10:14 When they ran the episodes, was it just each TikTok was an episode in and of itself? So you would scroll through their social and that would be part one, part two, part three? That's a great question. 10:27 I actually don't know. See, I mean- You know what we also- Yeah... for next time, hindsight is 2020. Sally, we should have done like a FMK for, for the, uh, for the fruits. Oh. [laughs] Yeah. 10:45 You know what I mean? We should've- Yeah... we should've lined up, you started talking about, was it his name like- Grapenzo? Grapenzo. Yeah. I already don't like him. [laughs] Um, don't like him. Yeah. 10:59 I, I was never a grape guy. Same actually. You know? Same. Well, actually, here's the funny part. I loved, uh, the manufactured grape, like Welch's grape juice. That was my jam. But eating an actual grape, never. 11:13 [laughs] The, the process. You didn't wanna have to actually burn the calories- Yeah... that it took to, to eat the grape. Yeah. Yeah. 11:22 So you know, look, at the end of the day is this is interesting about AI generated drama because we're, we're, we're really reinventing what it means to think about content. 11:36 And if the audience can't tell or doesn't care, does the distinction even matter? Like regardless of AI or not, tens of millions of people are watching it. Even Alex Earl was posting about this. 11:52 You know, you know how I actually heard about this? 11:54 I was hanging out at a little lunch hang, and there was this, uh, col- young college student, impressive young lady, we were talking about social content, and she's like, "Have you heard of Fruit Love Island?" 12:05 And that's how I discovered it. You know? So it's like people are, are interested in whatever is interesting. Does that make sense? It, it sounds like a duh, but- It makes total sense. But- No, no, no... you know. 12:18 I think people hear the headline Fruit Love Island and go, "Fruit? What? Parody. This is... I don't get it." That's the headline. I think if you were to do a deeper dive or a study on the 12:35 creative scratch that it's itching, I would go 10 times deeper to say it's one part, it's one part anime or it's one part anime, but because the fruit is also, 12:52 I guess, for lack of a better term, attractive- I almost wanted to tease you for calling the fruit attractive, but I won't. [gentle music] Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. 13:05 You're managing all the things, so why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps.com. 13:14 Print postage on demand and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. Over one million small businesses trust stamps.com. 13:24 Get $20 in free postage when you sign up for the pro plan at stamps.com/blackfriday2026. Terms and conditions apply. [gentle music] [laughs] I, I'm the one that said that we should do an FMK on the fruits. [laughs] So. 13:41 Yeah. Well, we should talk, you know what? I'm taking, I'm taking strawberry or cherry. [laughs] So if, I, I, either or. I, I call dibs. Orange. 13:49 [slurping] Uh, so in the spirit of, of talking about social content and, and what people are responding to, we should talk about clipping, and this is really- Yeah... big in the music industry. 14:05 It's really sort of the secret underbelly or the secret not so secret underbelly of what goes viral. 14:12 So every song that, you know, organically blows up on TikTok more than likely has been clipped, and, uh, it's basically a coordinated, paid, unregulated system of manufacturing the feeling of virality, and it's now used by everyone from Drake to The Rolling Stones, and it's a thing. 14:35 I know you're familiar with clipping 'cause it seems like not just the music industry, but creators use this as well. What are your thoughts on clipping, and how would you describe it in your opinion? 14:44 Clipping is seen as a, it's definitely a new phenomenon, uh, specifically as it pertains to short form, and by short form, I mean specifically Instagram and TikTok. 14:55 When it first started, everyone would focus on copyright, and the belief was Jellysmack and all these other companies, it was like you don't want other people using your content 'cause they're monetizing it, and if they're using your content elsewhere, that's bad for you because then they're getting views on your content, they're monetizing it, and the only way in which you should be able to... 15:19 You, you should be the only one that's able to distribute your content, and if your content is so fascinating, everyone will watch it because anyone else using your content is actually stealing views from you. 15:30 You're being robbed of your views because it's going onto other platforms. And so they would literally charge to eliminate anyone making content or ta- uh, you know, repurposing your content. 15:44 And over time, I think a lot of people have realized that actually it's the complete opposite. 15:49 Now yes, if it's a song, there's argument to be said that you want, you want to ensure that any time your song plays, you're making the m- you're, you're monetizing your song. Yeah. 15:58 You should be paid for and compensated for all of that, right? But if n- if no one's listening to your song or if no one is aware of the content you're producing, then ultimately what does it matter anyway? 16:10 And in a world where everything is being, e- everyone is making content and there's more content than any, a- a- any, than ever before and you're now competing with AI, it's a very long-winded way of saying what used to be take everyone else, take your content, don't allow anyone else to use your content and take it all down, is now turned into let everyone repurpose your content, let fan pages use your content. 16:34 Because the more con- the more your content is being repurposed or is being dis- placed elsewhere, the more views you are garner- garnering and the more people are seeing you. 16:45 And so then by proxy, your celebrity or the perception of your celebrity is built 100X- Yeah... because of it. 16:53 So the, the, a million views you get on your own personal channels is 10X because you have all these fans clipping your content to monetize it and actually gain views as well. Yeah. 17:06 I mean, look, I, I- Does that make sense? It, it makes sense, and I think it's, it's brilliant, it's smart. My understanding is there's huge people using it, right? 17:14 We talked about Drake and The Rolling Stones, but there's, there's Lady Gaga and Selena Gomez and John Summit. Like, it seems like this is a thing that people are doing. Here's where I'm very curious, though. 17:25 You know, the FTC has no rules around clipping, and so I'm like, should it? Right? 17:33 Because right now, if a brand pays us, or let's say one of your clients, generally you're supposed to say, "In partnership with," you know, "X or Y." 17:46 Whereas there's whole agencies that do clipping or there's individuals that do clipping, and they, you know, campaigns can run anywhere from $1,000 to $5,000 and, 18:01 and so there is an exchange to post online. And so- Right... I'm very curious how they get away with not having to disclose that in a way it's not genuine, right? 18:14 And that's, that's one of the reasons why the FTC exists to m- have, make sure brands disclose their relationship is they, they want to make sure that people know what the difference is between something that's paid and something that's not. 18:30 Uh, and you know, pending what that actual answer is, I mean- Why not clip all day every day? Why would a brand- Yeah... pay a creator if they could just clip? Well, well, hold on, hold on. 18:42 I think we're, uh, crossing swords here. Okay. Clipping, clipping I would say, clipping is actually giving editors or individuals that are editors the ability to gain some of the power back in a way. 18:56 When you're clipping, you are only clipping based off content that is available to be clipped. It's huge. 19:03 I'm not as well-versed on the music side, but I'm extremely knowledgeable on the live side, live side, specifically live streaming as it relates to Twitch, Kick, YouTube Live, TikTok Live. 19:15 Content creators are going live with the phenomenon of live streaming or, uh, obviously has erupted, uh, you know, has 19:23 been forged for a while now, but the likes of Kai Cenat have, and IShowSpeed have really paved the way to become mainstream pop culture. Mm-hmm. As well as FaZe Clan. What clipping has done for them is they'll go live 19:41 and they will run campaigns, yes, but those campaigns that they're requesting, they're saying, "Hey, I have a pot of money that I'm gonna allocate to X amount of people if they're able to garner X amount of views." 19:57 It's just paid media. Mm. All they're doing is amplifying their content. So if I'm a, if I'm a, if I have my own... Think of it no differently than a meme account. Mm-hmm. If I'm a clipper 20:12 and I own a content that, if I own a, a page or a channel that is solely for what I call clipping, I'm really just a fan account for X people that I'm a fan of or I enjoy or 20:24 I'm claiming it to be like a gamers, gamer channel- Mm-hmm... where you'll always see clips of the best live streaming streamers in the world. 20:32 I'll make X amount of videos of each person going live for 10 seconds, and I can make, I can make a decent buck if I'm able to 20:43 garner, uh, millions of views on, on said- So- Also, like, and those people charge X amount of dollars for the views they get. So here's where I am very curious though. I agree there's an editing component. 20:59 My understanding is clipping is not just about chopping it up, but pa- part of the key is the distribution. It's who's chop- chopping it up and who's posting. 21:09 And i- in a way, they are influencers of a different variety, right? They own distribution channels, right? You talked about a meme page. That's my interpretation of a clipper, right? Right. I'll go with you. 21:24 And, a- yeah. But what do you think about publishers? Vanity Fair, Complex, People, InStyle, GQ. But if they get paid, they have to disclose, right? So- But hold on. 21:40 Say I'm Leonardo DiCaprio- Yep... and a editorial writes about me and makes money 21:52 off of writing about it, that's essentially clipping except for I'm not the one actually creating the campaign and paying you. Then we run into- You're actually not including me in the moneti- Yeah. That-... 22:04 on the monetization. That's, that's frowned upon though, right? This like pay to play sort of... 22:10 That, that, that's where the FTC can sort of slap you, uh, is for doing things like that and saying, "Hey, well, like we're paying you to, to write about X and Y." Um, yeah, I don't know. 22:24 I, like- But the studios don't do that whenever they have a new movie coming out? To be honest, they do, but you know they're, you're getting paid, right? 22:32 So example, it is the obligation of a Variety or Hollywood Reporter or Deadline to report on the studio anyways. They want, they want that content. They'll do that for free. Yeah. 22:44 However, the studio may pay for a private screening, right? Or a round table. That is super clear though that that is likely a paid thing, I believe, right? 22:56 Or when it comes, comes to, you know, a lot of award season, you know, people are, are, are paying. And so, yeah- But if I'm a clipper- Mm-hmm... and I decide, let's say I'm not a clipper yet. Mm-hmm. 23:10 Let's say Chris Sawtelle right now is gonna start a clipping business. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna make a Discord. I'm gonna 23:20 galvanize a group of people that are all interested in clipping down, t- editing down clip- videos- Mm-hmm... and posting it on their social channels to get views- Yeah... and monetize it." 23:33 And I'll say, "Hey, where do I start?" Yeah. I'll start doing free content. 23:39 I'm gonna go, "Okay, Kai Cenat, he goes viral, so why don't I just start editing his videos, putting it on my channels, and seeing how many views I get?" I have no relationship with him, no relationship with his people. 23:54 I am totally just focusing on getting the views. Mm-hmm. 23:59 If Kai comes back and all of a sudden I start getting millions of views and I'm monetizing that without his permission, and he comes back to me and goes, "Hey, Chris, I see you're getting all these views. I wanna 24:12 build a relationship here. What if I give you first access to what I'm gonna do?" Or, "How can I make your life easier? If you get X amount of views, I wanna help incentivize you that much more. 24:25 So if you get X amount of views, I'll give you more money 'cause you're already doing this." I don't, there's nothing, I don't see the wonky legality to that. Yeah, I don't know. 24:36 Like- Selfishly I'm asking because it seem, it seems like a loophole. Again, I'm not the lawyer. I just see and I go, "Why wouldn't I wanna do this every day and all day?" 24:46 And I, this is where I could be wrong, but in the music realm, it's, to me it's not just visual, right? It's the audio. So my understanding is the clippers, they're helping create viral dances with the music. 24:58 They're creating new, original content- Oh... of, of the IP. It's not just, "Here's a music video. I'm gonna chop it up into a million different ways of looking at it." 25:08 It's, "I'm going to make inspirational co- short form content from the original IP." So if I've got a new song, I'm basically ma- manufacturing TikTok dances, skits with that music in the background. 25:24 That's how I see and understand clipping as it pertains to music. But you're, so you're just talking about creating meme content. No? Yes. 25:31 More or less I think I'm just saying if it's pay to play, should we have to disclose it, right? How, how, how, how do they get away with not disclosing it's, it's a paid partnership or a sponsorship 25:45 as if, you know, Pepsi would sponsor John to, to make a post of their new sort of- Well, I think that the way that that works 25:55 is that because it's paid media, you can debatably guarantee a certain amount of views, but you don't get paid until you actually deliver on those views. Hmm. It's like a retroactive pay, payment. 26:08 When it comes to clippers. Well, yeah. Like someone could say, "Hey," th- this is happening heavily now in influencer marketing. Mm-hmm. People want to ensure, "Okay, I'm, I'm gonna work with X talent. 26:21 I wanna ensure that I get X million views- Yep... for my campaign." Yep. Well, you do the organic, and by organic y- you do the organic campaign. You launch it, you do it with your talent- Yep... and see how it goes. 26:35 Yep. But you also, a lot of people are allocating extra money to ensure that it actually goes- Oh, yeah... viral. Yeah. 26:44 Because they know that they're getting hurt by the algorithm because each platform is saying, "We don't wanna support paid, uh, content." Yes. "You have to pay us more to actually make that happen." 1,000%. 26:56 And traditionally, you know, this is the dirty little secret, a lot of, of people do this. I wouldn't be surprised if most people boost campaigns. But here's where I'm s- very intrigued. 27:07 If I do an influencer campaign with McDonald's maybe three, four, five years ago, it would be, "Let's boost this on paid. Let's pay through Meta," right? "And boost this." Right. 27:19 Now it's, "Let's go to clippers," or, "Let's go to, um, boosting groups where maybe we're pay, like paying people to, to post." Yeah. 27:30 And, and, and just even, not even edit it, just re-share, like other creators re-sharing the content and maybe I- arguably doing just as well as if I were to have just paid Meta millions of dollars to boost this post. 27:46 So I think it's fascinating and smart, but the main question that I have is what now is authentic content? If it's becoming really acceptable to pay to boost, what's truly organic? What's truly viral? 28:03 Not to say it's, it's- Yeah. Okay. I- Yeah... I love that question. Yep. Because what that also then makes me think, though, 28:10 is, we didn't cover this but w- they just announced that both Google and Meta have to pay, I believe in the courts literally this happened this week. 28:21 But Sally, I don't know if you can pull this or if you can flag this, I would love to actually have this in this episode, it's super important. 28:27 There was a court ruling, they have to spend a ridiculous amount of money because it was proven in court that social media is, is addictive. Mm-hmm. 28:36 Or, or intentionally addictive which again, I think any, our listeners are gonna be like, "Yeah, duh." [laughs] It's like, crap. But, but 28:47 the point of highlighting that is like when you say like, "What is authentic content?" This is gonna go into our next topic. Like everyone's clip baiting. Yeah. Everyone is rage baiting. What is authentic? Yeah. 29:00 What is really, right now I never, I've never felt more manipulated in my life than when I go to my phone or I go anywhere where I'm consuming content because ultimately all every platform is doing is it's trying to own my attention. 29:16 Yeah. Keep me on the platform for as long as possible. Like 29:20 I, it wouldn't surprise me, this is so dark, but it wouldn't surprise me if within the algorithm of AI for Claude and Open AI, et cetera, if I, i- if it's not built in their code to keep my attention or keep me on the platform focusing on working with AI- Yeah... 29:35 as long as possible. Oh, of course. It's, it's of course happening. I'm not not surprised by that at all. But is that authentic then? Was that an authentic relationship? 29:44 Is that an authentic or is that an honest or earnest one-to-one? Like- We may not-... you argue it's supply and demand. Yeah. I need to supply you with enticing, interesting content that you want to watch. Yeah. 29:55 But then I am subliminally manipulating you into watching these things 'cause I'm either using tactics from the, you know, just like the old days of press. Yeah. Fear-mongering. 30:07 Fear-mongering, feelgood content or sexualization- Mm-hmm... uh, to lean on your primal needs or desires to- Yeah... focus in for 15 seconds. Yeah. 30:20 It's, uh, it is interesting but we, you know, you mentioned the, the next thing we're gonna chat about, we should chat about it. So, [snorts] uh- Speaking of primal desires. 30:30 [laughs] Speaking of, we're gonna talk about looksmaxing. This is what happens when self-improvement culture, dare I say, goes wrong. 30:41 But essentially it's, uh, it's being pushed by the algorithm I would say, and it's where- Is it in your algorithm? Not mine. I've just, I just- Wow... have heard of clavicu- clavicular, um, and I've heard of the term. 30:58 But as we were sort of researching this, I, it, I was like, wow, this is a little wild. 31:04 But essentially, it's a growing movement, particularly among young men, of optimizing one's appearance to achieve a rated peak, you know, look. 31:19 Uh, hollow cheeks, strong jawline, sharp eyes, et cetera, et cetera, and it's a thing. Looks maxing is a thing. Uh, I'm very curious your thoughts on it. Um, I'm a little troubled by it, to be honest. 31:32 [laughs] I think the way in which it's... I think it's all about the way in which it's communicated in today's day and age. What's, uh, we now have this phrase. 31:42 They, they've coined a phrase to it, and it's called looks maxing, right? Mm-hmm. That's just the timely moniker it's been given. 31:48 But it's no different than what happened 10 years ago, where you'd see Brad Pitt in a GQ magazine and people would say, "Do you want the, the Brad Pitt physique? You want the Brad Pitt Fight Club abs?" Everyone got that. 32:03 Or at least if, if you were my generation or my age, like, I know that all the guys were trying to, uh, target that physique. Yeah. Prior to that, it was Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? Mm-hmm. 32:14 So I don't think looks maxing is new, though I think that the, what looks maxing is attached to, and I think what mo- what I'm most fascinated by this topic is the, the discernment around y- uh, young 32:31 men, particularly white, aiding them into feeling validated. It... How do I say this? I think it's a combatant to 32:42 many white young men, or even older men now, hearing the terminology of happy wife, happy life. Or the idea that so many are becoming... 32:54 The, the sensation of the feeling, I'm not saying that this is right, to be very clear. I'm not aiding in this journey, as much as I'm saying that 33:04 there's a subculture of individuals that feel displaced or feel like their opinions don't matter. Because in the news there's been so much common conversation around women's rights, gender rights, uh, race rights. Yeah. 33:19 And so what we're witnessing is, like, this harsh alpha male energy and mentality, and class system. 33:30 And by class, I mean, like, there are literally, men are performance artists that are, like clavicular, who are talking to people online and saying, "Hey, if you want to enhance yourself, if you want to have value, you now need to act like this. 33:45 You need to better increase your physical appearance becau-" A- and they're, they're using performance data, or at least performance speak, engineering speak, uh, to almost make it like it's binary z- zeros and ones 34:04 to properly seek enlightenment. Yeah. Or, or enhancement. And I- And you know who's to blame? They're saying that women are to blame. Hmm. E- everyone else is to blame and not yourself. Yeah. 34:19 Uh, I don't know if I agree with, with that, the last part of what you were saying. Uh, more so in i- is everyone else to blame, right? I just feel like that's taking away ownership. But I- Yeah, I'm gonna... 34:31 We're saying the same thing. Yeah. I'm saying that, like, that's the, the mentality- The mentality... of like- Yeah, no. I, I agree with a lot of what you were saying. 34:38 I think to me, the underlying thing that's most troubling is this idea of self-esteem, right? You know, uh, like- Yeah... 34:46 men rating themselves, and e- even language about being, like, a sub3 or a sub5 and, and, um, apparently there's a ton of, like, uh, face apps that analyze h- what you can do better, you know, to looks max. 35:01 And, and it's, it is interesting, but when you think about it- I got scanned, I'm not gonna lie. [laughs] Not, not, not, not to understand my geometric- Okay, then why? [laughs]... capabilities. 35:14 Uh, well, honestly it was more just I went to the dermatologist just to- Oh, okay. Yeah. But they have machines that literally, the way it works is they, they scan your face, and they do it as, like, almost like a grid. 35:26 Interesting. So they just inform you that... I didn't, like, go to looks max. But here's- I just went because it was, like, time to- Yeah. Well, here's what's interesting though... check out our skin cancer. 35:36 It's like, who defines beauty, right, at, at that point in time? And this is the age-old question, right? 35:42 It's the reason why, um, Rihanna's Savage succeeded in a world of, you know, Victoria's Secret, you know, not empowering diverse people and so on and so forth. It's, I feel like there's waves. Who defines beauty? 35:58 And to your point, a decade, two, three ago, it was Arnold's, right? And then you have men's health magazines, and it's, it's changing. 36:09 But this, this to me is, is just really intriguing, in that you have whole influencers, uh, really surrounding the idea of, of looking perfect and what you do to grow your self-esteem. 36:24 And I don't know, I'm just sort of... I forgot who I was talking to. Oh, actually, yeah. I was, I, I remember now. But this idea that are we just all pansies? Like, like, 36:38 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago, these kids who were trying to look the best, like were going to war, and now it's like, let me have the best cheekbones. 36:47 And it just, for me, it feels like the ma- the male version of plumping your lips and doing sort of, you know- Botox and plastic surgery and so on and so forth, and I don't know, I'm fascinated by it. 37:02 It's, yeah I think the looksmaxxing, I think the reason why it, like, got so much noise is because it's counterintuitive to the conversation that, like, men are not focused on their looks, right? Right. 37:18 Or, or that they're not, what people used to call it metrosexual, and now it's... So there, there's something like the, the, the dic- the dichotomy of the- Yeah... 37:28 hilariousness of like, "Oh, that's a man is doing what is conventionally seen as, like, what women do." Mm-hmm. I think that's the headline. But 37:36 the subtext around it, like, have you, did you end up watching, uh, is it Enter the Manosphere? No. By Louis Theroux? Uh, I highly recommend the watch. Okay. 37:45 Because what he's, what he's scratching at or what the documentary really captures is how COVID... 37:55 I think what it exposes, regardless of, like, the cult culture that, uh, that is that quadrant of people doing whatever they are doing, so everyone should go watch it. 38:05 What it really exposes or what it really, really scratches at is each one of us in our t- in our algorithm has our own little subculture that speaks to us in some way. 38:19 And for some individuals, specifically in this documentary, some men are seeking a better way of life or, or a way to become a better man, and they're being, sadly, they're being targeted or they're, they're the targets of these performance artists or scam artists who are literally telling them that they are sub-prime men or sub- sub, you know, they're beta cuck men that need to do better. 38:47 Hmm. And they're at fault in that if they don't have six women that they're hooking up with at any which time and millions and millions of dollars in the bank... It, it's, like, all that. Yeah. It's feeding that agenda. 39:02 You see these guys talking about it, and you see these guys actually, like, working in, they, doing their, their work. I hate saying it like they are scam artists. 39:09 They are literally performance artists saying, "Follow me. Pay for my class, and I'll teach you how to be a better man." Yeah. Looksmax. Well, uh, definitely stuff to think about. 39:23 Uh, I need to, I need to ask myself [laughs] if I need to looksmax, I guess. Um- You're doing just fine. Thank you. Thank you. I think it actually tells you that every day. [laughs] Uh, so we should get into that time. 39:36 Oh. You know what time it is, right? What time? It's Hot Take time. Hot Take time. We need to figure out our sound, our sound effects. Okay, uh, you went first last time, so I think I need to go first. 39:52 I have a hot take. It starts with a question, though. Have you heard of The Backrooms yet? Oh, yeah. Okay. So- One of my favorite things. Love it. Now, not a lot of people, like... 40:07 I think people are starting to hear about it. Uh, it started out as a meme, turned into a hit viral Short. The universe expanded, and now it's being released this May with A24. Yeah. I have- 40:24 On AI technology, if I'm not mistaken. I didn't know that part. That's interesting. My hot take is that Backrooms is going to break records. Now, in the box office. Now, I don't... 40:38 Th- this is, this is nuanced because it's a, you know, it's a small film, right? It's not Marvel. So how do you define breaking records, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, so m- I guess I have to put a number on the box office opening. 40:53 Let's, let's do that. I'm predicting it's gonna make somewhere between 30 to 50 million opening weekend. Oh, wow. And I think that's gonna be huge. That's very big for a movie of that scale. So that's my hot take. 41:06 Do we know how much, uh, the budget was? Can't be more than 10 million. Why don't you pull that up for our, for, for our listeners- Yeah... and viewers, just to be aware. 41:15 Backrooms, uh, yes, it was a meme, became what was a Reddit or a subreddit. Kane Pixels, the, the youngest filmmaker that I believe that A24 has backed, he started at 17 years old with The Backrooms. 41:29 He actually made several short films, and I think he started development on it at 19. Maybe younger. Maybe younger. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. And it's, uh, 9 to 15 million is what a, a quick Google search- I guess... 41:44 is saying. Yeah. I... Yeah. It'll, it'll be- What I'm most excited about for this, and I'm curious about... Well, it's a yes, Andrew. I'm sure... Well, we'll see. We'll see when it comes out if you're right. 41:56 I'm curious about the marketing. Yeah. 'Cause right now I've not seen- It could be better marketing... outside of the trailer- Yeah... any real marketing. I agree. It's just a trailer. But 42:08 the meme fandom behind the, the concept of The Backrooms, that's where I'm basing my, my hot take in, is just so... 42:18 The o- the subculture is so large that people don't understand that just that in and of itself is gonna get people butts in seats. That's just my opinion, but anyways, what's your hot take? Hmm. 42:30 I've been trying to think of, like, what my hot take would be, and it's been very hard for me to actually come up with one, to be honest. Here's my hot take. I'll, I'll go with it. 42:38 Coming off the back of Sora closing its doors, I'm gonna predict that the first company, the first big studio to produce or to finance or, like, properly release the first AI film, it's gonna be Disney 42:57 Mm. And I think that we could very well see that come out within this year, within the next, the next 12, 12 months. It'll be like a short film. Okay. 43:06 I was about to say, I feel like- And, and, and, and, and that will be utilized as promo. All right, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll fine-tune it, fine-tune it. 43:14 Piggybacking on your commentary around movie, uh, movies doing success- doing successful. Yep. Knowing that OpenAI or Sora has closed its doors, and that was gonna be like the big thing that Disney was backing. Yep. 43:29 They now need to find their turnkey solution for what is there gonna be their AI marketing push. And I think that though they've already said their IP is gonna be available for people to make AI content around, 43:41 I think they're gonna make a faster push or a harder push within the next 12 months to actually get people to make AI short films around their IP. Yeah. And so I think we're gonna see a huge moment around... 43:54 Like, we'll, we'll see like our Lego movie. Remember like when everyone was making Lego short films? No. That was a huge- I wasn't really listening then [laughs]... YouTube phenomenon. 44:02 Like, people were like making like stop-motion Lego content. Okay. Uh, I think we'll see that phenomenon happen, but for Disney IP. Yeah. I like that. This... I don't, I don't know which one I wanna say it's gonna be. 44:14 I don't wanna like get married to one. Star Wars tends to be the easier, the more looser of the IPs that people like wanna play with or that they're willing to play with, but- I just think-... next 12 months... 44:25 I just think Disney should just do a Pixar, uh, just full, a full Pixar AI short. Like, that would be really interesting. It would be. Yeah. Or, or- My predictions are within the first 12 months... 44:38 or, or acquire the rights to Fruit Love Island and create a movie called Fruit Love Island: The Movie, you know, distributed on Hulu. Did you do improv? 44:48 [laughs] I feel like you really knew how to like bring that full- Yeah... circle. All right. Fruit Love Island: The Movie coming out 2027, spring. That's my hot take. Just kidding. Anyways, that was today's episode. 45:00 Thank you everyone for tuning in. We love jamming. If you have any notes, let us know. If you wanna support us and, and you're enjoying season two, give us a quick review. It genuinely helps more than you think. 45:14 We'll catch you next week. Peace. Peace. [gentle music] Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing, you're managing all the things, so why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? 45:29 Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps.com. Print postage on demand and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. 45:39 Over one million small businesses trust stamps.com. Get $20 in free postage when you sign up for the pro plan at stamps.com/blackfriday2026. Terms and conditions apply. 45:51 [gentle music] This show is brought to you by The Future Party and Crosstalk Studios, produced by Chris Sawtelle, Buyekele De, and Paul York. 46:00 Special shout-out to our production team, Artselly Rubalcava, Max Goolen, Shannon Klein, and Eli Tafur
