Transcript 0:00 Business is booming. Is your fulfillment ready for peak season? Switch to ShipStation now and handle more volume with confidence when it counts. 0:07 ShipStation connects Shopify, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and over 200 more integrations with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. 0:17 Everything your operation needs, all in one place. Right now, qualified shippers get a real dedicated person to get you set up and switched over for free, so when peak season hits, you're ready to go. 0:26 Switch today at shipstation.com, code audio. [upbeat jingle] Hey, everyone. I'm Chris Sawtelle, CEO and co-founder of Crosscheck Studios. And I'm Paul Urick, co-founder of The Future Party. 0:39 And welcome to the Future Forecast, a podcast where we explore the intersection between technology, entertainment, and business. We've done the research so you don't have to. So let's jump into it. Hey. Hey. 0:51 He's getting, he's getting good at it, getting warm. I almost like I'm doing- Lots of practice on week two... it's almost like I'm hosting a podcast. Oh my God. 0:57 [laughs] Uh, you know, you- Uh- You've done this enough and I'm already, like, I'm already ruining it. Look, look at this. For those that can't see it, I'm- Yeah, the stripes... I can't wear... Ooh. Take- Take it off. 1:06 I, I told you. [laughs] Committing, committing camera faux pas wearing stripes. Yeah, how crazy is that? Are you gonna get our, get our viewers a break so they're not dizzy by, by your patterns? Yeah. 1:18 That's, that's pretty shitty. There we go. [laughs] I'm pretty bummed out though, 'cause I really enjoyed the conductor look, you know? Uh, uh, Max hates this look, hates these overalls, and I was like, "You know what? 1:29 Come on. Let me live my best dad life," you know? Someone- There's truth to every statement. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Oh, are you saying, oh, there's truth to it being a shitty outfit? I'm the- [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. 1:38 I just have to dish it out every once in a while. Well, you know what? We'll take it. We'll take it. Uh- You made it really easy. Yeah. 1:44 Uh, guys, we're, we don't have, we're down Boyet, uh, two weeks in a row, but he's okay. He's doing his thing. Yep. Running around and exploring. He'll join us soon. 1:54 Um, I want to ask you about your week, just under hearing how it's been going, but I want to, for those listening, just let them know really quickly, like, what we're gonna be talking about and, um, what we have going on. 2:09 Today, an illustrator who drew Monster online eight years ago just sold the movie rights for over a million dollars. Netflix, Sony, and Paramount are all fighting to buy Letterboxd. 2:21 And the Emmy nominations came out with one show taking half the acting slots in some categories. Today, what happens when the old Hollywood machine tries to catch up with the internet and can't quite do it? Wow. Oh, wow. 2:33 That's a podcast. Yeah. You, you, you- It's gonna be a fun discussion... you're gonna, you're gonna drop with that? That's your clip right there. 2:39 Literally Hollywood is gonna come for you when you're just like, "And they don't even, they're not even able to do it." Wow. Yeah. Uh- Well, uh, how was your week, Chris? What, what'd you get up to? Anything exciting? 2:51 Oh, I hate that question. Anything exciting? I don't know. It's all, it's all, it's all perspective, Paul. I, you know, you know what I gotta say? I'm gonna throw this out there. 3:00 I am, I am, for those that don't know, I'm a big pickleball player. Like- Yeah... I, I, I, I play, I'm a- I'm out on the courts at least twice a week. And- I'm gonna be joining you soon... it's summer. 3:13 Yeah, dude, listen, you're more than welcome. I'm just saying, like- Yeah... do me a solid, do me a solid, just make sure that you've got some games in first. 3:22 The a- and, and I don't mean you specifically- So you don't want me to come cold? I see. You want me warmed up. You want me ready to go. You want a, you want a good opponent. I, I just, yeah. 3:31 I, but I haven't s- I haven't seen your game, so let, just be very clear, this is not me speaking on your specific game or not or whatever. Well, we've played a couple times. Yeah. Fair, fair, fair. 3:38 But yes, I wouldn't expect you to remember. Fair, fair, fair. Yes. That was more in the big, yeah. 3:42 But, you know, uh, what's funny is you get to a point where people are like, "Oh, yeah, I wanna, I wanna play with you," and, like, they think pickleball is just like, "Oh, yeah, like, you-" They- "... 3:52 pickleball's like..." He takes it seriously. His pickleball activities- Well, 'cause what ends up hap-... it's serious business... 3:58 what ends up happening is people wanna play with you, and you're like, "Yeah, sure," but, like, they've never played before. So what you're, you're- Right. They're like, "What are the rules?" Yeah. "What's going on?" 4:08 So what you're resigning... It's not like golf where, like, even if you're pl- everyone's playing their own game, so if someone's hacking away at the club and whatever, it's like, "Ah, it's like wait a little bit longer. 4:16 It's fine. Pick up the ball. We'll keep rate of pace. We'll go." Pickleball it's like- Yeah... it is a 4:23 I play with you, and if you're learning, I don't know the point structure, all, it's like you basically are doing two hours of education. Like, and I should be charging for that class. That's all I'm saying. Um- Yeah... 4:36 but this isn't a p- this is not a pickleball podcast, guys. We, we'll, we'll, we'll- It could be. Um, really what we've been- [laughs]... focusing on, we've been, we've been heads down. 4:45 I really wanna breathe and I'm really focused on breathing into fruition. I wanna start a founders group. Oh. 4:50 I really, I really wanna start a founders group, and by founders group, I mean, I, I really, this summer I really wanna focus predominantly more on... It sounds like I'm saying networking, but I just wanna- Yeah... 5:02 be able to set a reoccurring cadence where people in similar positions are trading or willing to be vulnerable enough to, like, trade, like, you know- Yeah... 5:13 we're all, uh, trade, trade thoughts and, and, and, and, you know, rub elbows. You're ex- And fe- You're explaining The Future Party of 2015. [laughs] Oh, yeah. Is that when it was? No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. 5:26 Is that how it started? Well, we started as, like, groups. We had big, uh, you know, um, business leaders and entrepreneurs and, um, entertainment professionals in a group together. 5:36 I, I mean, we still do, but, yeah, let's definitely, we should, we should offline about that. That's really cool. Yeah. 'Cause summer's just the perfect time to do it. Everyone wants to vacay and everything like that. 5:44 Yeah. And so for me it's more a matter of like, I'm not, I'm not trying to sit there and be like, "Hey, let me pick your brain," you know? And it's not like that. Yeah. I just wanna be able to rub elbows. 5:50 They're feeling sun-kissed and happy and- Yeah. I just want- Yeah... 5:54 I just, for me it's more like a matter of like, "Oh, God, how did you handle that situation where, like, your employee just kept bugging you time and time again- Yeah... for, like, this or that?" Um- Um-... 6:02 or people were fighting. It's like I, I'm, you know, I wanna do more of that. Well, with that, should we dive into it? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, our first topic, Hollywood's horror meme gold rush is minting millionaires. 6:19 Um, so Trevor Henderson, a 40-year-old illustrator in Toronto, drew a faceless monster called Siren Head in 2018 and never made money f- uh, from it for years. 6:31 Despite it spawning YouTube films, knock-off merchandise, and video games, he recently sold the Siren Head movie rights to Warner Brothers for more than a million dollars. 6:41 The deal is a part of a Hollywood gold rush following the box office success of Backrooms and Obsession to find internet horror concepts that could fuel the next hit. 6:50 Okay, so just as you're- How familiar are you with Siren Head? Not at all, to be honest. And I'd love to know more, but I, um... 7:00 It's funny because a producer I'm working with now actually is attached to, um, a different project called the Mandela Catalog, and they- Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah... Amblin won the big bidding war. 7:11 So it was very- Spielberg i- It was a little celebration last week on set with us, so. Is Spielber- Is Spielberg's involved or is that just Amblin's involved? Amblin, but Spielberg's always a part of that, as you know. 7:20 Of course, of course. So. But I, I, I remember the headline was Spielberg, so I didn't know, like, what the actual real connection was. Definitely, yeah. So, um, so just some headlines on, on this article. 7:31 Um, he got paid more than a million dollars for the movie rights. Uh, Roy Lee, a producer of It, and- Mm-hmm... uh, is attached with Zach Cregger and, um, Brian Duffield- Right. And actually-... who did White Chalice... 7:44 that will make that a lot, will make that really interesting. Yeah. And look, I, I, I w- we've been talking and covering 7:54 this wave of Backrooms and Obsession in, uh, you know, the newfound indie world with, like, what I like to call found IP, like stuff from Reddit and whatnot. Yeah. I guess the question is, is this the lesson... 8:10 We, we, we're talking about the lessons we want to learn, we want Hollywood to learn from the success of something like Backrooms, and now we're seeing it play out over the last several weeks. 8:23 Are we trending in the right direction, Chris? Do you feel like this is the way to go about it? And if not, what is the w- right way to go about it? I honestly, I don't really think that anything new is happening at all. 8:38 Like, this is not new. It's just a matter of the press continuing to fearmonger for views, candidly. Right? Like- Mm... these wins, when we're talk- Original IP, hands down... 8:54 Obsession as a original piece of IP that was produced and created out of thin air, out of someone's idea, and it winning the way it won, is a phenomenon of intuit- in and of itself, similar to that of The Blair Witch Project. 9:09 Mm. But when we talk about Siren Head, Siren Head could be successful. It also, you know... 9:16 People forget, like, Slender Man is a perfect example of another IP that was, uh, built out via Reddit that everyone, it was unbeknown- You know, everyone was beloved or it was feared and- Mm-hmm... 9:30 they turned it into a movie. And I, I, I don't remember the numbers, but i- it was a blip. It wasn't a very good movie and it wasn't well received. So- Sure... 9:40 I think, you know, a lot of the times when people are like, "Studios need to learn," yeah, studios need to learn and need to, need to... But, but, but what they're learning is really more discovering... 9:53 Studios need to be more savvy around where they're discovering and developing their IP. That, that's really- Yeah... all this is really saying, right? 100%. I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, you know, 10:04 um, there is a lot... Us, we have the, uh, um, ability to see what's happening from the inside. We have a lot of friends who are executives. 10:13 We have these conversations week in and week out, and I find, um, a few things happen. One, executives are afraid to lose their jobs, so they don't take risk. 10:22 Two, the budgets are way too expensive, and what's happening is the, they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on Supergirl and Mandalorian Goku, and then they don't make $2 billion and everyone's disappointed. 10:40 I think what's so great about something like Backrooms and Obsession is they can... There's room for them to be successful because their budgets are low. Obsession being an anomaly, right? Right. 10:51 But, you know, when you take something like this, I think the idea and the lesson to be learned is continue making the IP with a fan base, but make it at an economical level so that it can win because positive headlines in our industry are a good thing and more projects will be made. 11:09 I think that is the takeaway. You know, what's, what's gonna be very interesting from a deal-making perspective? 11:15 You know, for better or worse, watching a deal like Obsession, watching a, watching a project like Obsession get the notoriety and get the suc- the, the success that it's achieved, in a w- on one end of the spectrum helps pave the way to reinvigorate the appetite of discovering filmmakers who are crafting on social first. 11:35 Mm-hmm. But what it's also doing, and is somewhat scary, is the studio's always gonna wanna buy and own the project nine times out of 10 outright. They wanna buy- Right... 11:48 for those not familiar, studios can and will exert themselves similar to that of a bank because it- Yep... it's always in the best interest to own it, and then if it's a great meteoric success, own all the upside. 12:01 In the '90s, and even, you know, in the 2000s, is f- not familiar out now. It's very, very much... In the earlier years- Deal-making, uh, there was, there was the sentiment of first dollar gross. 12:16 Or the idea was that talent could take a bet on the film or the project where they would receive a percentage on the first dollars in- Mm-hmm... made, earned, where they would participate in those earnings. 12:29 Where the likes of, if I'm not mistaken, I believe, you know, Robert Downey Jr. on Iron Man, or who also is- Tom Cruise... one of the most, uh, the most prolific first dollar grosses. Uh, Johnny Depp on Pirates. 12:42 Yeah, Johnny Depp. Yeah. There, there, there's plenty of names of people who took the bets on the projects and made millions- Mm-hmm... and millions and mi- And we're talking like, not like 10, 20, like $90 million. 12:55 Yeah. Right. Like F-you money- Right... till I never have to work again. 12:59 But the point of me mentioning that is I'd be very curious, as it becomes harder and harder to break through the noise of filmmaking, traditional filmmaking, do we see studios reintroduce the idea of a first dollar gross project? 13:17 Because- Mm-hmm... 13:18 if they come back around and say, "Well, Cooper and Curry made that movie," or, "Curry Parker made that movie for $750,000," do studios come back around and kinda say, "Hey, we'll do a slate of 10 projects at a million dollars. 13:33 You're a filmmaker that wants to make a name for yourself. We'll give you the million. You know, bet on yourself," right? Sure. I, I'm, I'm curious to see what, uh... I would like to put that out in the ether. 13:44 I, I, I'm pretty, I'm pretty pessimistic on it, that actually happening. But I like where your head's at. 13:51 I mean, the other piece to this is a producer admitted that they're using ChatGPT to figure out what the next IP is, and scan Reddit and do that. And to be honest, it's, it's a funny thing to think about. 14:03 But when you're an executive, when you are a creative executive looking for the next project, I mean, if you go into a studio, piles of scripts, right? You have to mine through 'em, you have to read them all. Yeah. 14:18 You, like there's no time to look at anything else, right? And so to be honest, it's a really smart way to like scan the internet for stuff. 14:27 I just wonder if it's gonna end up we're gonna mine everything that there is, and there's n- never gonna be a sense of discovery, or everybody's gonna be trying to get the same thing. 14:38 Because ChatGPT is really like Google in ways, where you can manipulate search... It's like search engine. Yeah. 14:46 Where if you do SEO correctly, there's ChatGPT SEO to where your, your story or your business will pop up first. That's true. 14:56 You don't think that- So who's to say everybody's gonna be fighting for the same 10, 20 projects? You don't think that's any different, that, that's no different than what it is already? 15:04 Like listeners, for those not familiar with the process, particularly in books, there, there, you know, there's plenty of books and/or media rights- Mm-hmm... agents out there. 15:13 Literally all they do all day long is represent books or, like Siren Head, specific IP in, for, for the exploitation of TV and film. Yeah. 15:23 And all they do all day long is they search for IP and look for them to represent them. Reach out, "Let me represent you. Let me go get you a sale. Let me take you out to market." 15:34 And like, you know, this is at CAA, WME, UTA. There's also very specific tried-and-true IP, like book media rights sales companies. Yep, yep. And every week, every month, there's a new book, there's a new IP. 15:49 One gets hot, and every single person has to have it, uh, because it all of a sudden became the New York Times pub- Like, it's, it's like the New York Times first, uh- Mm-hmm... 16:00 w- w- w- top, top published list or whatever. New York Times best-selling? The best-selling. 16:05 How many times have we been on those li- or not, not we are on those lists, but how many times have those lists been sent to us? 16:11 Once every month, and all of a sudden, the producer executives receive it, kinda like it, it just, it was like the old version of ChatGPT. Mm-hmm. It's just receiving that, and it's handmade from New York Times. 16:23 And they're just going, "Okay, which were the top sellers?" That's the indicator. Yep, yep. Those are the best ones. That's the one that's right for adaptation. It's no different. Sure. It's just... Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 16:34 That, I mean, uh, that makes a lot of sense. More money will be spent, and then it means that there's more access. There'll be a lot more failure, but also more success. Yeah. 16:45 And I think whatever's energizing executives at the end of the day to make as close to original stories as possible and not Iron Man 15, right? Yeah. 16:58 I'm more interested in how the effects of this happen as it pertains to... I think what we're gonna see more of is the exploitation... Well, what's gonna be exploited more or is gonna come further to realization 17:10 is what we as human beings want to be voyeuristic to- Mm-hmm... or more participatory to. Mm-hmm. 17:18 Meaning, like, because so much of even what we're doing now, we're doing a podcast talking about our opinion, our experience. I think that with social media and Instagram and TikTok, so much of our 17:30 putting our kernel in the, in the bowl or our offering, our value is to give our opinion, to give, to exercise our right to communicate. 17:39 I think that's kind of an in- indicative of like why Netflix might participate in purchasing a Letterboxd, so to speak. Yeah. T- [gentle music] 17:48 Cash now, more later from Opendoor gives you cash upfront for your home, plus all the profit later. That's no chaos now, no cash left behind later. Skip the showings now, pocket extra profit later. This is so simple now. 18:02 This is so awesome later. Or sell fast now and pop the champagne later. Cash now, more later. Now available nationwide. Start your offer at opendoor.com/acast. Profits calculated after fees and costs. 18:15 Eligibility and offer price may vary. Totally. Story number two. [laughs] Everybody wants Letterboxd. And Netflix has a season two problem. 18:30 Letterboxd, the movie social network beloved by film fans, is up for sale, and the list of suitors is a who's who of Hollywood. 18:38 Led by Netflix, Sony, and Paramount, the most interesting angle is a Netfl- is Netflix as a buyer. It just walked away from Warner Brothers, and new data shows it is struggling to keep viewers past a show's first season. 18:51 Mm. Buying Letterboxd would be a very different kind of move. 18:54 Um, just for a little bit of context, Letterboxd, founded in 2011, now with more than 30 million members globally, uh, 10 million added last year alone, has held early sales talks with multiple buyers at a reported $250 million valuation. 19:10 Um, listen- Did it share what territory, or does it share where in Letterboxd, like, what region it is most dominant? Like, like whether it's US, UK, or... I'm curious if that's even shared. 19:22 Chris, do you use Letterboxd, and how familiar are you with it? I don't. 19:29 I'm familiar with it as it pertains to, like, what it is, but for our y- for our audience, I think it'd be great if you could give us a rehash or a re- reeducation. Have you heard the term everyone's a critic? Oh, yeah. 19:42 Oh, yeah. So this, this app allows for that. I... Okay, so a couple things, right? Like, people love, um, a place to log their movies, what they've watched, their roundup lists. 19:54 As lists trend, best movies of 2026 or- Mm... the my favorite comedies, this allows users to be able to log things, to rate them, to give comments. 20:07 It really gained a lot of virality because people would write funny comments, or, like, Martin Scorsese would get on there and list his favorite movies. 20:16 Or, you know, you'd have an actor who is saying funny things about different movies that they've seen, and people want to be in on that. 20:24 I have friends who first thing they do as the credits roll is log into their Letterboxd and write a little review and hit publish. It's definitely a really cool, um... it's definitely a really cool, uh, platform. 20:39 I personally forget to use it sometimes. I tend to not pull out my phone as the first thing I do when I walk out of a movie. Um, but it is a really, uh, fun platform. I try and log. 20:52 I try to, like, be up in the conversation. Uh, but every- there's a lot of people who use it and love it and live by it. Uh, so it's, it's pretty interesting, especially with the Netflix angle of this whole story, right? 21:06 Uh, we both have a lot of friends at Netflix. We both, uh, understand internal and external, uh, conversation that's happening there. 21:17 I think a reason for these second seasons being such a gap is because it's pretty obvious. These are expensive and hard shows to make that are filmed all around the world. 21:30 It's not easy to have to go to South Africa and shoot One Piece, you know, which is- Yeah... super heavy visual effects, crazy location. 21:41 You know, there's s- there are big, expensive shows that take a long time to create. You know, like Beef season two. Beef was such a success. I don't even know if Netflix understood how big of a success it was gonna be. 21:54 And then it was made, and they're, th- they probably said internally, "Where do we go from here? We have to do something just as clever." Do you like Beef, in word? I haven't finished season two. Oh, wow. 22:04 So that should- Okay... that should say something. Yeah. I also... Y- and the problem is, is that I will watch season one, 22:13 but then season two comes out, and it'll come out in between a bunch of other TV, and I just don't have the time to catch up. 22:21 And I almost wonder if the Netflix algorithm is, um, the thing that's hurting them the most because what tends to happen, I don't know if this is, um, happens to you, is it will stay on my top lists, uh, or it'll stay on my top, um, picks or recommend- recommendation list for, like, a week, and if I'm watching something else or I'm busy, it, it's like, "See you later. 22:45 Bye." If I don't add it to a queue, it's out of sight, out of mind, and I forget about it. And so I wonder if the actual algorithm and the way content is presented is actually 22:58 the one, the thing that's hurting the platform the most. I- Outside of- Yes, for sure. Yes, for sure... rising costs and gap in production. I... Yes, for sure. 23:08 Also, it's interesting that we, when, when talking about season, Beef season one s- versus season two because I think something that we, I'm, I would... I should pull this data at some point. 23:21 Th- that we should do this for next. We, we, we talk a lot about marketing, and we talk a lot about TV- Mm-hmm... film content, generally speaking. I would love to make a chart of the top-rated TV and films. 23:35 When I say n- top-rated, I mean most viewed, most watched the last year or two years, and what I'd like to match it up to is two things. One, the idea or the individuals involved, but pairing that- Mm-hmm... to 23:52 the, I almost, I almost wanna call it the drama... I almost wanna call it the, the drama scale, and by drama scale, as I'm pointing upwards, is I'm curious, with more success, how much more drama circulated the project. 24:07 I think what we forget, Beef season one, for example, Ali Wong, who already was very prominent on Netflix, phenomenal, uh, performer and comedian selling out arena, you know, arenas, crushing it. 24:20 What we also forget is literally within a Significant or was going through a divorce. 24:27 As well as it was very well known that she happened to, to discover or find herself in a relationship with a extremely prominent writer, uh, writer-actor, who was also in a huge franchise, Bill Hader. He, uh- Mm-hmm. 24:44 And so there's a, there was an element of all of that turmoil and all that chaos and discussion going around her that I think that only helped further invigorate watching the project, right? It's kinda like... 24:58 I hate saying this- Yeah... but, like, Sam Neil just died, right? For the Real- Mm... RIP. Yeah. You better believe last night as I'm, like, working, Max put Jurassic Park on. And I'm more- Good. 25:10 My favorite movie [laughs]. But, but, but that's... But, you know, but, but talk about the algorithms, talk about when those things happen. Yeah. 25:16 We wa- I mean, whenever someone passes away, there is a nostalgic awareness of like, "Oh, I need to watch that." Yeah. And I... Look, I think that's, like, a w- like, one, that's one example, right? Mm. 25:28 But we're looking at One Piece losing more than 30%, Night Agent lost 50%, and another in 35, 35% in season three. Wow. You wonder if people's attention or just care is weaning. 25:42 One other thought is, like, is the binge model working? We've, we've been... This has been a discussion s- for a long time now, right? The investment, the emotional investment you have, right? 25:53 If you think about it, like, Silo on Apple TV, they do one episode a week. You're holding on until ne- on Fridays to watch Silo, or it's an event. House of Dragons on Sunday, right? HBO commands that Sunday night. 26:07 You go and you binge eight episodes of One Piece, or you binge something, it's come and gone. 26:12 So there's gonna be a sharp drop-off of people who want to watch it, and then the conversation dies, and you're not riding the wave of other people who wanna get on. Right. 26:22 The Pit was so successful first season because it had... Number one, it's on... It, it, there's so many episodes week to week that it allows conversation to build. 26:35 And I remember watching The Pit and watching the first couple of episodes when it first aired, being like, "Wow, this show is really awesome. No one's talking about it. I'm really scared it's gonna get canceled." 26:45 But then as the show went on, what is it, like, tw- 12 or 24 weeks, what- however many episodes there are. It's- Yeah... you know, a 12-hour shift, so I think there's 12 episodes in real time. So 26:57 12 weeks of dominating the conversation is massive. And that's how something like The Pit gets its viewership. If you look at The Pit's viewership, it just s- is skyrocketing because word of mouth builds. 27:09 I think Netflix has the problem of getting eaten by the algorithm, and also with the time it takes to produce something, people lose interest. And then people, like, eat it up, and it's done. Look at The Bear. 27:23 Th- No one's talking about The Bear because they just binged it all in five days, and then it's done. It's over. There's no conversation after that. Did- Right? Did the, did they drop The Bear, though? 27:34 I don't remember The Bear being dropped all in one go. We- Was it? We talked... Yeah, we talked about it a couple weeks ago. Yeah. It's, it was all dropped all at once. Um, so- That's crazy. Yeah. I, uh... 27:44 And so tying it back into Letterboxd, it's really interesting that studios w- would want a platform like this. And frankly, it's pretty smart. Number one, it's showing... 27:54 It's getting them what they f- feel like they don't have, which is, um, connection with users who are going to the movies. They understand what people wanna watch. They understand what people are seeing. 28:05 It gives them another pipeline for marketing and advertising and putting their, uh, their projects in front of people. 28:12 Um, I just hope it doesn't get too gamed, where they're, like, trying to, you know, use it to market their movie and creating fake Letterboxd accounts. Oh. Like, sometimes people do that here and there. 28:24 I'm just hoping it doesn't just become this slog of, like, just we're just getting fed ads like crazy. Like, the cool thing about this Letterboxd community is that it feels authentic to people's tastes- Yeah... 28:37 in real life, um, opinions on something. My hot take? You know. My hot take? Yeah. Netflix rolls out its own version of Spotify Wrapped, but it's for TV and film. And the idea- That would be sick... 28:50 if they buy that, then b- bas- If they buy Letterboxd, then Letterboxd is basically able for us to all, like, have our own individual identity around, like, what we've consumed and what we've... And then rank it. Yeah. 28:59 And so then you can share, "Hey, here's my watch list. You should partici-" Like, even though we already, like, can do a variation of that, it's more gamified. Uh- Totally. Yeah. 29:08 What you don't wanna see is the, the minutes watched. That, that to me, that's not something that I wanna see at the end of my year. [laughs] I kinda do. I like it. Really? Dude, I, I- I don't care. 29:17 I know I'm watching a lot of TV. It's my job. You know, my brain, my brain goes minutes watched, and then I divide all that up and go, "Damn," like... It's almost like saying... 29:26 It's the same way in which one thinks about you spend h- uh, uh, one-third of your, your year in bed or one-third of your life in bed. I look at that and I go, "Wow, I spent," you know. 29:38 The difference is you need sleep for your health and not TV. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. We're back in with next story. The 2026 Emmy nominations have a concentration problem. 29:51 The Emmy nominations came out with genuine highlights. Hacks broke a record. The Pit led the field. There was a moving posthumous nomination. But the bigger story is a structural one. 30:01 A small number of shows are taking up half or more th- of the slots in individual acting categories, squeezing out deserving performances and, critics argue, exposing a rule the Academy needs to change. Um, well, 30:16 let's talk about this. What's being exposed? What, what, what's the claim on? What's, what's, what's being exposed? I think rules around, um, how many can one show have as many nominations as... 30:30 they want or are they limited, right? Mm. I think here's the thing is, like, a show like Pit, massive, massive nom- I think 30:43 they took up four of the seven supporting actress slots and three of the supporting actor slots on its own. But that show has, like, 15 cast members. Yeah. So why not? Like, I don't see... 30:54 You know, not every show is doing this, but The Pit is so deserving. Everybody is aware, hopefully, of how they make the show and what they do, um, because it is really a marvel at how they go about making this thing. 31:10 Also, though, if I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, you know, the studio doesn't necessarily back every single one of those actors for their nominations. Meaning, they, like- Yeah... 31:19 not to say that they don't back them, just to be very clear. Yeah. More me saying that, like an Oscar campaign or a run, if you're an actor that wants to be nominated for something, you- Mm-hmm. 31:33 A perfect example is Melissa Leo. Melissa Leo, yeah. Okay. Melissa Leo, uh, very famously ran her own campaign to be- Yes... nominated as best supporting actress, and she won. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 31:50 Also, phenomenal performance. But- Yeah... 31:53 the, the, the, the point of, of highlighting that, also The Fighter was phenomenal, but the point of that narrative or the point of that story was that the studio wasn't backing her as one of the actors to be focused on in their, in their- Yeah... 32:11 in their actor campaign. Anyway, I, I, I more just... 32:14 I mention it to say that, you know, if you're an actor that wants to be highlighted for your work, doesn't mean that you actually get nominated, but if the studio- Totally...'s not backing you, you should be able to back yourself and run your own campaign. 32:24 Well, it's interesting. Let me rattle off some other ones. DTF: St. Louis took three of six limited series supporting actor slots. Hacks took five of seven guest actor slots in comedy. Mm. 32:36 Double nominations for Matthew Rhys, Colman Domingo, Nick Offerman, and Laurie Metcalf. I mean, these are deserving performances. We're talking about, like, really great actors, and I'm really happy and excited for them. 32:50 I, I, to be honest, don't have as much of an issue with that as I do calling The Bear a comedy, right? Like, that was- Mm...a big conversation when The Bear was nominated. 33:01 It's like, well, it's stealing a comedy slot from another show, but is it really a comedy? It's more of a drama, right? 33:08 Yeah, there's comedic elements, but I would think, "Hey, take a look at category fraud more than, like, can an actor be nominated twice?" Yeah. Right? Um, but- And that, you know, it's so hard. 33:19 It's so hard because I would say, like, to me, if you were asking me that question about The Bear, I would just say that I think that depending on the performance. I mean, there, there's... 33:29 We're in a world where story- and s- from a storytelling perspective, we have to remind ourselves there's so much drama in comedy and so much comedy in drama. And of course, there's a sliding scale- Sure... 33:38 and variation. Like, an Adam Sandler movie, if it's specifically a Happy Madison film, Happy Gilmore, probably more, quote-unquote, "slapstick comedy" than there is drama. Mm-hmm. But that doesn't mean that, you know... 33:51 I, I think it's more a venue of, like, what is considered drama, what is considered comedy? 33:55 And I think that, like, yes, if it's The Martian being in the category of, no shame or no shade to, to, uh, Matt Damon and The Martian, but, like, if it's The Martian, like, yeah, it shouldn't be best comedy or musical. 34:10 That's very random. Well, hopefully it wouldn't be because it's a film, but I understand your point. [laughs] Do you remember that? Like, that, that, that... When they- For the Emmys or- No, for the Golden Globes. 34:20 That was a huge thing. Oh, Golden Globes. The Martian- Yes. Yes, yes, yes... The Martian fell into the category of best comedy or musical and was nominated. Yeah. And it was the biggest joke around. 34:32 Uh- I mean, here's the only thing with the, the, so many actor slots being taken up. Um, there's a lot of people left off the table. Ethan Hawke, Peter Dinklage, Keith David, Lucy Hale, Amelia Jones. I mean, I would... 34:47 Even some of the cast of Industry. I'm shocked- Mm... that Industry got no love at the Emmys this year. I really loved this last season of Industry, and I thought it was really, really great. It just shows that these... 35:00 The competition is stiff. I mean, Widows Bay, 19 nominations, The Pit, 24 nominations. These are shows we talk about, right? I was telling you, I was like, "Widows Bay is gonna, was, is gonna clean up." Yeah. You know? 35:12 And- Some, and something also maybe to take into no- take, take note of, and I'm curious, there's gotta be something to it here. There's only so many shows, right? And- Right... we have to also remind ourselves 35:26 the award shows, as much as the accolades and the awards are nice, they're solely a means for further promotion to get us to watch the shows. Sure. Totally. 35:38 And so, and so there's a lot of money that goes into campaigning and supporting- Mm... and boosting these nominations. And so especially in a world where it's so much more... 35:49 it's so difficult to be seen, I think it's sadly more validating or more of a proof in the pudding that maybe the studios put significantly more funds to ensure that they own- Mm-hmm... the entire category- Sure... 36:06 so to speak, right? Industry had its run the first season. Are you gonna put that much money into season one as you are season two? Are, you... 36:14 There's only so many slots to put your marketing budget or your marketing dollars to work for you, and maybe they already saw the data and were like, "You know what?" I, I, I... 36:23 Tha- those have to be conversations that are happening behind the scenes- Of course... when we come to, to the award time, right? Yeah, definitely. I- I was curious. I looked up some, um, some data on, uh, viewership. 36:37 Um, last year, 7.4 million views, uh, which has been a recovery. Uh, the Emmy had a record low year, 4.3 million viewers in 2024. And, um, though it remains pretty... 36:52 It's- it's declining, you know, from the 10 to 17 million plus range, uh, which we saw in the 2010s. I think this is just a reflection of culture in general. Like, we've talked about award shows. 37:04 You have just so many of them. TV, the way people watch, engage in TV is different. I don't think Gen Z cares really about award shows. And streaming has just changed every- social media has changed everything. 37:17 People are like, "TLDR, get it on social media at the end of the day. Oh, there was a funny host. Like, I'll just watch the intro the next day on TikTok or whatnot." So, 37:28 you know, all these shows are fighting for relevancy, and this is kinda- Yeah... where I thought you were gonna go, is, you know, that's probably a part of it, too. 37:37 What do we wanna nominate and what do we wanna bring out that is an achievement on a grand level of something like The Pit, that had astronomical s- amount of streams, billions of hours streamed. Yeah. Right? 37:51 And, or something like Widow's Bay that's very much in the conversation now, right? These are shows that really drive people to watch. So we'll see what, what happens. 38:04 The Emmys air Monday, September 14th on ABC and Peacock. This is not an advertisement for them. But- The way you read it... if you wanted to tune in The way you read that very much sounded like it. 38:13 It, it was [laughs] that was a, that was an ad read. I was like, "Wow, you're a professional." [laughs] Have you seen, have you seen Hacks? Yeah. Or any of these other shows? Hacks is great. I am a consistent... 38:26 I, I loved Hacks. Uh, I think I'm sad it's over. I'm curious to know what's gonna take its place and if anything is ever going to be as nom- I mean, it's been nominated every single year for dozens of awards. 38:39 I mean, it bro- it's broken the all-time record for the most nominations for a single comedy series in the final season. It, it very much screamed to me kinda like how... 38:50 It's almost like when Alec Baldwin, you would get nominated every single year as, like- Mm-hmm... Best Actor in, uh, in 30 Rock. Yeah. Similar, like, the affinity for... 39:00 And I'm not, I'm not, uh, that hopefully doesn't come off as a dig towards Hacks. It's more me just saying, like, when, when there is such a deep appreciation for s- one's, uh- Mm-hmm... participation in the community. 39:14 Paul Downs, uh, I just think has had that affinity. Everyone loves Paul and, and the creative team around him and, and his collaborators that Hacks has had that special place. 39:25 I, I think that for me personally, what's so hard with a lot of these shows, you mentioned Silo. I'm a hu- I was, I, I am a huge fan of Rebecca Ferguson and season one of Silo. Huge. Yeah. 39:40 But what is so difficult with these shows is you set up a, a premise that audiences fall in love with. And when you're ch- there's, there's something, it's kinda like a drug. You're, you're chasing to be- The high. 39:56 Yeah... you're chasing the high of being captured within that universe. 40:01 And no spoilers here, but with Silo, it's one of those shows where as you uncover more or as you discover more within the universe or what is happening, the show 40:14 kind of takes on a new life and has to find a new identity for- Sure... future seasons. And so- Yeah... I, I think that that's a problem with a lot of these TV shows now, is that you fall in love with one thing. 40:27 You know, like Breaking Bad, you fall in love with Walter White. Walter White's gonna get in trouble. Is he gonna get caught? And every ep- And, and, and then he doesn't. 40:35 And every episode is you checking in to see who's gonna get caught. Is he not? Is he gonna escape? Who's gonna get killed? Similar like The Sopranos, you, you- Yeah... there's a safe containment to what- Mm... 40:46 you're being discovered or what you're identifying yourself with. I often find that Apple TV has those hooks where you're like, "Can they make more than one season off of this?" 40:56 Silo is a book series, so there's tons of- Mm-hmm... roadmap there. I would say continue watching it. Season Two had a little bit of, like, a momentum slump. Yeah. Agreed. 41:05 But by the end, like, really, I think really won me over. Season Three has been excellent so far. Like, I love they've added layers to it. But with- They're setting it up... 41:14 something like- You can see that they're setting it up. Yeah. Yeah. So with something like Your Friends & Neighbors, I was watching that show and I'm like, [clicks tongue] "Can they keep this going for multiple seasons?" 41:24 But surprisingly, the show got better in its second season. It's a better show than it was the first season. 41:31 And I, and I'm always surprised when I see these hooks where I'm like, "I don't know how they can do multiple seasons of this concept," and they constantly surprise me, or they don't. Yeah. Right? 41:42 Or it's something that'll just taper off. Um... That's why I like, that's why I think so many of Bill Lawrence's shows are doing so well. As well as, like, as we talk about 41:53 The Pit, obviously an entirely different show, entirely different creator. But to me, what Ted Lasso and Rooster have and continue to do, as well as, like, Shrinks or Shrinking. Shrinking. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 42:09 And then I, I equivocate this to The Pit. These are shows that 42:15 every episode, whenever I watch, I very much feel that the creative and the community within the show that are participating are reaching a cr- reaching out of the camera to me, the audience, to say, "Do better 42:31 Be a better person Yeah, yeah, yeah Be, i- really showcasing what we as civilization should be positioning ourselves to strive to be. Mm-hmm. 42:41 And that feel-goodness that at first feels fake, if some people wanna wipe, wipe, you know, write the show off to that, I think is a little bit cynical. And to me, when I watch it, it's more a matter of, like, 42:54 that's the world that I signed up for. Sure. And that's how I'm gonna show up and expect to, to participate in it. There's also a classic style of, um, storytelling with some of these shows. 43:05 They feel more like old-school traditional TV. Week to week, you wrap up an episode- Mm-hmm... you wrap up a storyline. I mean, The Pit is so great because you're getting that show every year like clockwork. 43:17 You're getting 12 episodes arou- every week, and it's just, they're just crushing it, and I want more shows to follow that lead. 43:25 I want more TV that's shorter gaps, that's more invested, and I think you're gonna have more shared voice that way. And the, The Pit just happens to also be phenomenal. Yeah. And the acting is great. 43:38 The writing is great. You just really care about these characters. And so to be honest, great, give them all the nominations. This doesn't happen every year. This happens a little... 43:49 I mean, I'd say Hacks happens every year, but it's over. It's, it's done. So what's gonna be that next show that's gonna really captivate the world and just sweep? 43:59 Um, this has always been a thing, and I just w- I, I'm interested to continue to see what's gonna happen. Um, Chris, will you be watching the Emmys? Yeah, I'll pr- i- i- it'll be on in the background. Who's hosting? 44:13 Okay. I forget who's, who's hosting this year. Uh, I don't know. Do you know off, off the riff? Who's hosting the Emmys? Um- Do you know? Marisa, M- uh, Mariska H- um- Hargitay? Hargitay. Hargitay. Mariska Hargitay. Wow. 44:26 Yes. Yes. Wow. By the way, that's very interesting. What an interesting way to go. Yeah. I would not have picked that. I just need something different. I, I... 44:36 It's just been rinse and repeat for every single award show the last four years. They're just like- Usually it's, like, a big comedian. 44:41 Marisa- Jim like- Marisa Hargitay is- Yeah, the Jimmy Kimmels of the world or- Yeah... whomever, right? Wow. Um, well, this has been a fantastic pod. 44:51 I don't know if there's anything left to say on the Emmys other than I'm excited to talk about the wins and see, see what's happening. Are you gonna catch up on any of the shows that you haven't seen before? 45:03 No, I feel pretty good. Well, I, I'm, I'm, I feel pretty good. I feel pretty good. Okay. I will, uh, I feel pretty good. I'm really heavily jumping back into House of the Dragons, which I appreciate. Yeah. 45:14 And I, I might take a stab at The Bear one more go. I, I, I mean- Do it... I've watched, I watched some of it. I finished it. I haven't done, I haven't, I haven't finished it, so the, so I might try to jump back in. 45:24 I think the payoff is really sweet. Okay, cool. I think the third, the, the f- the fifth season, um, of The Bear, uh, uh, is really good. Um, I, at, at first you're like, oh, they're doing it like this? 45:40 It's the first time the show's ever had an original score. It has a mood and a vibe to it. Yeah. They say, okay, in these seven episodes it's really meant to binge. 45:49 We're gonna be following a, a service from start to finish, and this is- Whoa... gonna be the last one. That's cool. So, like, there's a lot of, like, there's a, um, a set structure. 45:59 I still, with The Bear, find that I, I wish the characters weren't so frozen in where we saw them in season three. Yeah. Like, I feel like they just didn't move forward in season four, and that really bugged people. 46:12 But season five and they're like, "Oh, well we gotta just, like, defrost them to make it, like, them whole people- Yeah... in season five." 46:19 But to, to be honest, I found it rather sweet, and I think overall the season works- Yeah... and is a nice kinda, like, bookend for it, and I was a little sad watching it end. I w- I was a little sad. 46:31 Um, despite its, its flaws, it was still a really great series, and I'm glad it existed, so. Yeah. I, I, I, so I'll, I'll jump back in. 46:38 Jeremy Allen White's character was just hard, is, lost likability for me, so I think that's why it was hard for me. Mm-hmm. Uh- Yeah, yeah. But, you know- Let's check in. I wanna talk to you about it. Cool. 46:47 Let's check in. And, and I'll end it with, uh, I can always use a little bit more Baby Jane Doe. [laughs] Baby Jane Doe. I love it. [laughs] All right. Well, um, thank you for tuning in and listening to us. 47:00 Please, uh, subscribe to us on YouTube. You can follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio. Uh, check us out at Future Party, um, at Chris Sawtelle and at Future Paul. 47:13 Uh, maybe I'll see you next week, but you will definitely see Chris next week. We have to ac- And, uh- We have to talk about Spider-Man. That's what I wanna talk about next week. Yeah. Well, Spider-Man- Friend who did... 47:24 we have two weeks. I'm pretty sure- Oh, we have two weeks?... we have two weeks. All right. 'Cause Odyssey is... No, we will talk about The Odyssey though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have your tickets? I don't. 47:32 Max didn't- Do you?... think about me when she purchased them. What? Yeah, it's okay. We'll, we'll talk about it another time. Um, well, I'm going Friday at 4:00 PM. Oh, wow. Um, yes. 47:44 Uh, you should try and get some tickets. I'll text you. Maybe we can, like, figure it out. Yeah, I'd love that. I'd love that. I'd love that. Okay, cool. Well, uh, thank you everyone, and we'll see you next week. Peace. 47:54 Peace. [electronic tone] 500 orders a month was manageable. 5,000 is madness. 48:02 Embrace intelligent order fulfillment with ShipStation, the only platform combining order management, warehouse workflows, inventory, returns, and analytics in one place. 48:12 What used to take five separate tools, ShipStation does in one. Automate fulfillment and rate shopping to ship up to 15 times more with up to 90% savings. 48:22 Go to shipstation.com and use code AUDIO to try ShipStation free for 60 days. [electronic tone] This show is brought to you by The Future Party and Crosstalk Studios. 48:33 Produced by Chris Sawtelle, Hoya Colady, and Paul York. Special shout-out to our production team, Araseli Rubalcava, Max Goolen, Shannon Klein, and Eli Tafur
